Gas Prices!!!

[jasonfish320]

No-one's safe in this argument, you can place blame on both the government and the oil companies. There's good points on either side. My argument: Look at how advanced our technology has become in the past 20 yrs. You've got to be kidding me that we can't develop an alternative way to develop a fuel or an engine that can run more efficiently...TRUST ME WE CAN!! It's the Auto companies/Oil/Government that hold us back.. It's in the best interest of the govt. to keep us on oil, look at how much they make on the stuff and they don't drill for it, refine or deliver it, they just tax it! Ethanol is a freakin' joke, it takes 3 gallons of fuel to produce 1 gallon of ethanol and that one gallon uses enough corn to feed one person for an entire year! Brazil right now has been developing Ethanol through sugarcane which is a more direct result, since ethanol comes from the breakdown of sugar..they are having a lot of luck with it and can run about 80% of their vehicles on the stuff....Also, if you think oil prices are high, take a look at the food industry..it's really taking a beating...restaurants are changing their menu prices almost monthly because of the fluctuations in rice, cheese & basic food products.

[WTL]

The price of flour doubled a in one month around the begining of the year. Gas aint the only thing going up.

Jason, we can make vehicles that get better gas milage. We can make vehicles that are cleaner. We can make vehicles that run on water, cooking oil, and biodiesal and electricity. What we havent been able to do, and it aint cause its being held back by the government of corporations, is we can't make a vehicle that is as cheap as a mass prooduced gas powered car that gets superior mileage or uses a less expensive fuel all in one package. The internal combustion engine didn't become king because it was terrific at any one thing, but rather because it was good enough at a great many things.

I am looking forward to fuel cells becoming more prevalent, but there are a ton of kinks in the technology right now and it is more expensive all told than just getting a 89 honda civic.

I do think we are bound to see a new class of hybrid minicooper like vehicles come out and become a standardized force in the American auto industry. Perhaps mopeds will become cooler as well.

[Jim80]

If you look at the ethanol prices in brazil they almost mirror gas prices , when gas started to rise ethanol was 3.15 a gallon just because of how hard it was to produce . nice civic ref by the way and who could hate on a vespa

[Lilmoosecountry]

Trust me working in a bank. I understand free markets. But at the same time. We have to say enough is enough. We can't let a small amount of greedy investors get rich. While there actions are flushing the economy down the toilet. There actions are hurting not just gas prices but also Food cost, Transportation cost look i could go on & on about the implications of high gas prices. We are also a Democracy where majority rules. If thatz what it takes to get these greedy investors heads out of there arses then i say do it

[WTL]

We are a Republic first, democracy second. The Constitution comes first. The right to private property, to assemble, to free speech all come before the will of the majority. Hitler was elected by the will of the Majority. Castro came to power at the head of a majority, as did Lenin. What you are advocating is theft, socialism and communism. All in the name of the people, but the people will be the ones hurt if you put shackles on the free market.

[WTL]

Lets say this message board was a small country, a pure democracy with no rules governing it.

And we had a crisis of sort or another. Say I convinced 51% of the members to take all the tackle, boats, tow vehicles and everything else that belonged to the 49%. Lets say you were the leader of that 49%.

Would our coercion and theft be legitimate? Even though we are a majority, and can claim the will of the people, we would be theives. Looters as Ayn Rand would say.

[Jim80]

I kinda agree with what you are saying wtl , but big oil in the past has had a history of stamping out alternative fuel sources . Only in the past say ten or so years have they started to put effort into finding a worthy replacement . Now you can say anything you want about the goverment not getting involved but look at the countries leadership , Bush's father sits on the board of of major oil company , when the contracts were given out to repair oil wells in iraq they were given to the company that Dick Chenney was the ex VP of , and i'm not argueing the point just saying the oil and the goverment are very closely tied already . But I put things like that in the same boat as health care , right now there is a major push going on by the drug companies to make it illegal to buy vitamens without a prescription , and beyond gas that is something to be outraged about .

[WTL]

I have another example, one I think you will understand.

Remember the cold war? How did we win that? On the battle field? No.

We won because our economy was innatley superior, especially after Reagan took office in 81 and deregulated several industries.

Contrasted our economy with the Soviet economy, which was a planned, centralized economy. From 1970 until their fall I don't think their economy grew at all. Why? Regulation. People in Moscow thought they could make things better by regulating economic activity of all kinds. In truth, once people got the power to regulate economic activity they more often than not used that power to line their own pockets, but the net result anyways was that the Soviet economy faltered while the American economy rebounded from the 70s, a decade of high inflation and high gas prices, to have 20 years of prosperity.

This won the cold war because the government coffers were much fuller in washington than in moscow - hence we spent it on military upgrades, Star Wars, the Abrams, smart bombs, ect ect. By doing so we then made ourselves clearly superior to the USSR militarily and economically. Around 1986, Gorbechev proposed glasnost and perestroika as a last ditch attempt to reform the Soviet economy, the effect of which made it clear to the average russian, pole and hungarian that the USSR was a totalitarian regime not run in the name of the people but rather that of the Kremlin fat cats - and you saw the fall of the Soviet empire.


Jim, I dont like bush either. I remember saying that the GOP would have been better off electing Gore in 2000, if for no other reason than it would clean out some of the cronysim and the political prostition ring that the GOP had become. I just dont think Bush is powerful enough to hold back, I mean really hold back, alternative fuels. Maybe he has not publically funded research into them as much as possible, but public research money only gets you so far anyways.

[Jim80]

True , and i thought Gore would have been better as well and while Bush isn't powerful enough to hold back alternitive fuel research I do belive that the industry as a whole has in the past 20 years , I was really just referenceing how goverment and the oil industry are tied together . Regardless of how any of us feel about the current prices I don't think anyone will argue for us to just seize control of the oil supplies . The wars that would ensue would probally be the worst in modern history . And while the average American will complain about it i don't think they would try to live without it either , I'm not gonna ride a bike to work even though it would be cheaper and most likely improve my health and you wouldn't use oars rather than your main motor to span a lake and that is why we will stay tied to oil because people just aren't willing to give up the comfort it provides . if people were willing to give some of that comfort up how long do you think it would be before oil prices hit $1.50 gallon or lower just because people backed off of their dependencey for it ? It won't happen but it could because you have to remember after all is said and done an items ability to sell is based on the consumers beibng willing to pay for it .

[doc]

Originally Posted by Lilmoosecountry

Trust me working in a bank. I understand free markets. But at the same time. We have to say enough is enough. We can't let a small amount of greedy investors get rich. While there actions are flushing the economy down the toilet. There actions are hurting not just gas prices but also Food cost, Transportation cost look i could go on & on about the implications of high gas prices. We are also a Democracy where majority rules. If thatz what it takes to get these greedy investors heads out of there arses then i say do it

Fellow banker here also . I run the IT dept of a small financial institution.

[WTL]

Jim, thats what I am saying. People are going to have to get used to high gas. To the point where 4$ doesnt seem high anymore. They are going to need to adjust their driving habits, when they replace their current vehicle they are going to need to downsize, in order to keep selling vehicles auto companies are going to have to offer smaller, lighter passenger cars designed to maximize mileage - its gonna take a few years. This is an adjustment, a correction of what really was a bunch of bad habits on the part of the average consumer, and either we can man up and make the changes and take the responsibilty of paying for gas or we can cry about things, blame those who arent to blame and try to colonize several large companies and even maybe a few small oil producing countries.


There was a reason I sold the tracker for a smaller boat. Now if I could only find an 89 civic for 800 or so bucks.

[Jim80]

good luck luck with the civic I'm gonna get a old hummer that gets 6 miles to the gallon , kidding of course but if remember the mid 80's when gas had it's last major spike economy cars were huge ie. the dodge aires k and so on , but society is currently based on how big and shiny everthing is and the more over the top you the higher status you can claim . We all fall victim to it weather it's fishing stuff , cars , or so on but the suv and it's gas guzzleing counter parts won't die anytime soon , because the average person at this time can not afford a 35,000 dollar hybrid .

[Jim80]

Here is one other thing to consider , my grandfather holds a bit of phillip morris stock and every time they suffer a class action lawsuit regarding the health of smokers his stock has rose , most likely because the negative image with the company fades for a while afterwards . Now if something like occured with the oil companies who is to say that the effect would not be the same ?

[bamabassman]

rebbasser, i agree with you 100% on the feds. and yes the united states goal from the standpoint of using theirs verses ours is to use up theirs first. that way, the other countries around the world will have to pay our prices. yea.... i know... that is gonna be like 100 years from now (give or take a few yrs). and as for building new refineries and all. i agree with that as well. but even if we started 10 years ago doing that, it would STILL take another 20 years to complete those projects. and we would still be where we are today. another thing that gets me is that we are the ONLY country that is "nature" friendly so to speak. we have more small groups that tell congress and the white house what to do than anywhere else in the world. when we get the peta, green piece and other fanatic groups out of the white house, the better we will be. i am ranting and i haven't got all the little details correct, but i feel that we can all agree on most of my points. right?now i DO believe that we should help other countries and all. BUT i DO NOT feel that we should open our borders and our wallets to each and every one of them. too much that we have given has been wasted and not used in the proper way. republcan or democrat. doesn't matter anymore either. they are both corupted in my opion. neither is doing what is right for the u.s as a whole, just what is right for them and their little world. we need a leader that is looking out for ALL of us. ok...enough from me, lmao. LETS GO FISHING!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA.

[Rebbasser]

Amen, Bama. Amen.

[Lilmoosecountry]

Yesterday i read a story about americans going accross the border to buy gas at 2.00 a gallon. There is more going on here than just supply & demand. If itz being sold for 2.00 accross the border. LIKE PRICE FIXXING!!!! Ohh well there going to continue to screw the american public. LETZ GO FISH"N & shut BIG OIL out!!!!

[Jim80]

Originally Posted by bamabassman

rebbasser, i agree with you 100% on the feds. and yes the united states goal from the standpoint of using theirs verses ours is to use up theirs first. that way, the other countries around the world will have to pay our prices. yea.... i know... that is gonna be like 100 years from now (give or take a few yrs). and as for building new refineries and all. i agree with that as well. but even if we started 10 years ago doing that, it would STILL take another 20 years to complete those projects. and we would still be where we are today. another thing that gets me is that we are the ONLY country that is "nature" friendly so to speak. we have more small groups that tell congress and the white house what to do than anywhere else in the world. when we get the peta, green piece and other fanatic groups out of the white house, the better we will be. i am ranting and i haven't got all the little details correct, but i feel that we can all agree on most of my points. right?now i DO believe that we should help other countries and all. BUT i DO NOT feel that we should open our borders and our wallets to each and every one of them. too much that we have given has been wasted and not used in the proper way. republcan or democrat. doesn't matter anymore either. they are both corupted in my opion. neither is doing what is right for the u.s as a whole, just what is right for them and their little world. we need a leader that is looking out for ALL of us. ok...enough from me, lmao. LETS GO FISHING!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA.

some of those small groups do help to preserve the areas we hunt and fish in , but i do agree that fantic groups hold to much sway over the public . If the people from peta cared half as much about starving children in america what do you think the effect of that would be ? a lot of people tend to caught up in the small problems which eventually end up taking a lot of attention away from our major problems . Also if you have noticed as groups like peta push to take away your right to hunt and fish other areas of society suffer . The more that man abandons the instinct to hunt crimes against fellow men rise it's hard to ignore human instinct and when you do there is always a backlash .

[Jim80]

Originally Posted by Lilmoosecountry

Yesterday i read a story about americans going accross the border to buy gas at 2.00 a gallon. There is more going on here than just supply & demand. If itz being sold for 2.00 accross the border. LIKE PRICE FIXXING!!!! Ohh well there going to continue to screw the american public. LETZ GO FISH"N & shut BIG OIL out!!!!

A friend of mine just got back from the bahamas and told that gas was 6.75 a gallon there and my cousin in germany said it is about 5.75 there .

[bamabassman]

jim80...YOU ARE SOOOO RIGHT MAN. I AGREE WITH YOU 100% BUDDY!!!!!!!!!