.410 Vs. 20/28

[flbassman]

Well, In the spirit of TN's 22 vs 22 mag, I have a question for yall. I'm lookin to pick myself up a New England Arms Pardner, for the reason that it costs 130 dollars. Supposed to be a nice little gun, cheap, efficient, etc. I'll be usin it for small game (probably not birds, but maybe some doves or duck every now and again) it'll see mostly squirell, rabbit, the ocassional coon, and the possibility of a fox or somethin if I get lucky. I'll also be messin around with it, shootin cans and some hand thrown skeet. Mainly lookin at the lower gauges cuz we already have 3 12's, and I don't really need anything big. What do yall recomend, 410, 20 or 28? Thanks a bunch.

[tnfisherman]

i would say 20

[Lancer6]

Originally Posted by flbassman

Well, In the spirit of TN's 22 vs 22 mag, I have a question for yall. I'm lookin to pick myself up a New England Arms Pardner, for the reason that it costs 130 dollars. Supposed to be a nice little gun, cheap, efficient, etc. I'll be usin it for small game (probably not birds, but maybe some doves or duck every now and again) it'll see mostly squirell, rabbit, the ocassional coon, and the possibility of a fox or somethin if I get lucky. I'll also be messin around with it, shootin cans and some hand thrown skeet. Mainly lookin at the lower gauges cuz we already have 3 12's, and I don't really need anything big. What do yall recomend, 410, 20 or 28? Thanks a bunch.

Right off I'm gonna say "No" to shooting (at) ducks with a 20 gauge. No 20 gauge shell can contain the needed amount of larger-sized shot OR generate the velocities necessary to the purpose. Remember too that waterfowl hunting requires steel shot or one of the other lead subsitutes.
The price of non-lead loads will be enough to scare you off the idea if nothing else will.
Stick with the 12 gauge for waterfowl and please observe the no-lead law.
Now for the good news...the 20 will be ideal for dove, quail, and squirrels so long as you choose the proper loads...#7&1/2 to #8 for dove and early season quail; #7&1/2 only once cold weather causes the quails' feathers to thicken and harden; and #6 for squirrels.
The .410 and 28 gauge are experts' guns, no matter who may say "Well, mah daddy started me on a fo-ten and I done OK." The .410 and 28 gauge shells simply cannot contain enough shot to form a large and dense pattern AND those two rounds are the MOST expensive shells you can buy (not counting steel loads.) More prospective young hunters or wives have been discouraged by the ineffectiveness of the .410 they were stuck with than by the recoil of a 20 or 12 gauge...trust me.
I do have a Beretta Silver Pigeon II Over-Under with matching 20 and 28 gauge barrel sets and shoot well with both but that's only because I've been at it a lonnnnnnng time.
My dad presented me with my first shotgun when I was 13...a Remington Model 58 Sportsman in 12 gauge, the first gas-operated semi-auto marketed, circa 1956. I stayed with that gun and a succession of 12-bores until my skill level and instincts made it practical to add a couple of 20-bores to the arsenal, then, as the last gun purchase of my life, that graceful and beautiful Beretta.
As a side note, my large-game rifle is a Belgian-made Browning semi-auto in .270 Win with a Leupold 2.5x8 atop it...Schweet!
I wish you safe, successful, and sensible hunting.

Lancer6

[chubs]

Get the 20 gauge, the shells are sold just about everywhere.

Lancer6 said the rest!

[MIbasser]

Much like everybody else, the 20 gauge. Now if you are a really good shot, go with the .410

[lowrider]

nothing more to add here, Lancer said it all.

[zooker]

i'd go with a 20 -though not my first choice-for small game it is a great gun light weight light recoil. shells cost about $4 a box compared to $25 for a box of 410 or $38 for a box of 28 gauge..

a plus is the 20 will flat sling a forster slug which will allow you to hunt big game. trajectory on a 20 slug is much better than that of a 12 bore..


lancer
most of my family use 20's for water fowl hunting-all 5 brothers-i am the lone freak in that i use a 12 gauge..and they have been doing so for many years..

zooker

[lowrider]

with the crappy knock down power of the steel shot loads we have to shoot these days, i can't imagine shooting a 20. especially if you have to finish one while he's on the water. and i hunt flooded timber...no super long distance shots like a blind in open water

[Lancer6]

Forgive me, but I just had to show it off.
http://www.berettausa.com/product/pr..._guns_main.htm

Select Silver Pigeon II from box on left and scroll down to that specific gun.
The very first time I hunted doves with it, using the 28 gauge barrels, I got my 12-bird limit, a mix of Mourning Doves and White-winged Doves, in 15 shots. My two companions (three, counting the dawg) had been predicting much wasting of shells and few birds, but the Silver Pigeon shot as though it had target-tracking radar. They were amazed...so was I.

L6

[jmartin]

While we are bragging. Here's how I bust Clays
http://www.browning.com/products/cat...12&type_id=242

[flbassman]

Thanks everybody! Just curious, whats the range on the 20? My main reason for lookin at the .410 is that I'll be doin quite a bit of shooting in suburban/rural areas (neighborhoods with 3-10 acre lots), varmint work for buddies, and I know the .410 won't shoot too far. (Not that I'll be takin unsafe shots....)

[lowrider]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpv0y...eature=related

here's some clay busting for ya. with the gun that has become THE duck hunters choice

[jmartin]

Yea I cant run my pump that fast... LOL

[zooker]

a 20 compared to a 410 sound wise. they are both real loud....if your going in to burbiea i sugest a 22lr rifle. they prodouce a 1/4 of the volume of either shot gun..

zooker

[flbassman]

Yeah, right now we're switchin between a hopped up air rifle and a .22.....But I'm just lookin to get myself a shotgun.

[Lancer6]

Originally Posted by flbassman

Yeah, right now we're switchin between a hopped up air rifle and a .22.....But I'm just lookin to get myself a shotgun.

For God's sake just buy the freakin' 20-bore and PLEASE don't hunt waterfowl with in (no matter what!) Remember that NO 20 gauge load can achieve the velocities attained by the higher powered 10 and 12 gauge loads and thus the shot CANNOT penetrate anywhere near so well the dense feathers of waterfowl. Add to that the much lighter SHOT charges that 20s are limited to=Smaller and less dense patterns, and simply apply logic.
Instead of fueling the firestorm here why not go to the Remington site or Winchester, Federal, etc, and read the data on 20 vs 12 gauge loads, including the non-lead ones that are MANDATORY for waterfowl. The truth will become clear.
I don't care whose pappy, mammy, Uncle Festus, brother Elmo, or sister Clitoria has hunted with loads and gauges that result (though it'll NEVER be admitted,) in lost game that goes off to die in agony. Ever watch pond turtles eat a wounded game bird alive as it flops around in the water...Nightmares!
If you have a choice of chokes (or by some miracle the gun you purchase comes with interchangeable choke tubes,) then I recommend Improved Cylinder for close-in Dove and Quail work; Modified if the Doves are high and wide or the Quail are spooked and flush wild. Full choke for squirrels (at the very least, Modified.)

Pant...pant...

Be safe, have fun, be a true sportsman.

L6

[WTL]

Lancer seems to really know his stuff on this subject.

I don't have very much hunting experience at all, but I will say that even though I love to shoot my 20, my only success on a dove shoot came with a 12 and I attribute that to the amount of lead it put in the air. My father tells the story all the time of watching his father hunt with a FBI man who shot a 410, and hit something like 48 out of 49 doves with it back in the old days. But that was always to impart that that guy was really, really good.


I kinda have always wanted a 16 gauge for the novelty of it.

[flbassman]

I think I'm gonna compromise. I'm gonna buy the 20 gauge first chance I get, and I found a guy on craigslist who wants to trade a .410 for my old trolling motor. From what I understand, it's a piece, a stevens model 58, but the motor is just takin up garage space. Thanks for all the info Lancer. I won't hunt duck with either, we got 3 12's around the house.....

[Lancer6]

Whew...

[bamabassman]

<<<<<<<<<<<wants a .410 rabit ear fer wabbits. double barrel.

[Lancer6]

Originally Posted by bamabassman

<<<<<<<<<<<wants a .410 rabit ear fer wabbits. double barrel.

Be vewy, vewy, quiet...I'm hunting da wabbit.

Fudd, E.

PeeYess: IF you can find a rabbit-ear double WITH a safety mechanism, great. If not, wellllllll. My first wife's father blew himself away with one of the rabbit-ear jobs (16 bore)...right in front of his wife and four daughters, proving how "safe" it was. Thank God that was before I met Barbara.
Alcohol was involved.

[flbassman]

Yall think an old 30 pound motorguide is worth an old stevens .410, bolt, magazine loaded in good condition? I figure the gun is worth about $75 and the TM is about $50, but I could be wrong. Thanks

[tnfisherman]

as long as you feel you got the best of of it

[keithdog]

I'm into this conversation kinda late, but now that you've decided to purchase a 20 gauge, I'd recommend buying a 20 that will chamber a 3 inch mag. That way you can shoot both low brass and high brass. Just a thought.

[flbassman]

Yup. Right now I've got a 1100 that only shoots high brass, and it's a whole lot more expensive than low.....