Super tuning baitcasters

fishin' fool · 09-07-09, 09:54 PM

I know this was a post a while back, but I was wondering if anyone has tried this. I read the steps online and it doesn't look tobad. I'm thinking about trying it on one of my reels. Any tips or suggestions? Thanks and good fishin'

doc · 09-08-09, 09:45 AM

IF it ain't broke don't fix it, especally if it's an expensive reel. Is my opinion, if you do try it post back and let us know how it goes

Raul · 09-08-09, 01:20 PM

Tunning a reel can be a pretty expensive bet, when you are finally done you could have purchased a reel that already had all the goodies you wanted in your least expensive reel.

There are ways to improve the reel performance without tunning, the cheapest is by changing the lubricants you currently are using, grease like Reel Butter on your gearing will make the reel silky smooth, for better casting you can change your spool supporting bearing´s oil for a low viscosity oil like Rocket Fuel ( but you´ll have to oil more frequently ) will gain you a couple extra yards.

The next step of upgrading the reel would be tweaking with the gearing ( polishing it ) and to change the spool supporting bearings for ceramic type bearings, also, changing the drag pads for another material like Carbontex will make the drag more fluid and responsive.

The next step of upgrading would include a better spool and some extras like reducing the weight by changing the handle.

dodgeguy · 09-08-09, 08:28 PM

or just buy a pflueger patriarch xt.

basstech · 09-09-09, 09:58 AM

I did what what I would call a half super tuning, didn't take sand paper to anything but polished all the gears inside and out after doing a thorough cleaning. Made sure I got all the tarnished copper or brass parts perfectly clean. also polished the spool post. I used a fairly heavy rubbing compound with a roto-tool nylon brush. I did make a pretty big difference. I only did this to several reels though.

nofearengineer · 09-09-09, 01:14 PM

I hate to tell you guys this, but polishing those gears is not necessarily a good idea, even though I have to admit, it does look sweet.

Those gears are typically involute spur gears, where the faces of the gears are not supposed to be rubbing together anyway; they should be rolling against each other. The "magic" of how they work is in their geometry, not in their shinyness. Remember, they are not a bearing. In fact, for slow operation (slow compared to motorized gears), the miniscule pits in the gears can hold excess lubrication, which can be a good thing.

If you were looking to perfect the gearing of an astronomical device or a precision timing device, I could understand it. For a fishing reel, it's really overkill. A waste of time, in my humble opinion. Spend your money on better spool bearings if you must.

basstech · 09-09-09, 02:22 PM

Thanks for the additional info, that would explain why my the drag on those became a bit touchier and inconsistant. I will atest to this though, as far as spool rotation goes, I think polishing the inner walls of the pinion gear where the spool post goes through helps as well as cleaning and oiling everything else that actually comes into contact with the spool post. I will leave the gear and washer faces alone for now on other than normal cleaning and lube.

nofearengineer · 09-09-09, 03:26 PM

I hope you know I meant the faces of the teeth, not the flat side of the gear itself. My terminology stinks.

basstech · 09-09-09, 03:42 PM

No I thought you meant the faces. Didn't do the teath, for once laziness pays off, but that being the case, do you have any explanation after doing the faces why the drag would become so touchy and inconsistent. I'll have it set so it pulls line out stiffly but smooth, then after fishing a few hours, it feels likes it's locked down untill i pull a few inches out and then it is smooth at the same tension. I did grease the metal washers well so they wouldn't stick. Would oil be better? These are older citica's and curado's I'm using and I did actually change out drag washers but still have the same problem.

nofearengineer · 09-09-09, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basstech

No I thought you meant the faces. Didn't do the teath, for once laziness pays off, but that being the case, do you have any explanation after doing the faces why the drag would become so touchy and inconsistent. I'll have it set so it pulls line out stiffly but smooth, then after fishing a few hours, it feels likes it's locked down untill i pull a few inches out and then it is smooth at the same tension. I did grease the metal washers well so they wouldn't stick. Would oil be better? These are older citica's and curado's I'm using and I did actually change out drag washers but still have the same problem.

Does the side of your gear sit against something, like the face of another gear or the housing surface? If you polish something, it wants to "stick" to other smooth surfaces, especially so with wet, lubricated surfaces. Taken to an extreme, I have seen videos of super-polished metal surfaces laid on each other, hit hard with a hammer, and they basically welded themselves together.

It's hard for me to tell what exactly is going on in your reel without looking at it. Maybe you got some stray rubbing compound left inside of it?

BigBassin144 · 09-09-09, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by basstech

No I thought you meant the faces. Didn't do the teath, for once laziness pays off, but that being the case, do you have any explanation after doing the faces why the drag would become so touchy and inconsistent. I'll have it set so it pulls line out stiffly but smooth, then after fishing a few hours, it feels likes it's locked down untill i pull a few inches out and then it is smooth at the same tension. I did grease the metal washers well so they wouldn't stick. Would oil be better? These are older citica's and curado's I'm using and I did actually change out drag washers but still have the same problem.

If your reel has a dry drag system, then you should NEVER oil it for any reason. If it has a wet drag, It can be lubed, but I'm not exactly sure with what.

BB

BigBassin144 · 09-09-09, 04:59 PM

When you say Supertuning, are you refering to polishing the surfaces the bearings touch, or that cause friction, like in this article (http://www.ultimatebass.com/content/view/72/83/1/1/), or are you talking about adding high end parts like upgrading drag, bearings, handle, spool, etc.?

BB

Raul · 09-10-09, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBassin144

If it has a wet drag, It can be lubed, but I'm not exactly sure with what.

BB

Shimano Drag Grease or Cal´s drag grease.

EastTexas · 09-11-09, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raul

Shimano Drag Grease or Cal´s drag grease.

My 4600C3 has a Dry Drag - DON'T OIL!!!!

When I cleaned my reel this time I did not use a drop of oil.
I White Greased where the oil was used.

Now I get less bird nests

I had too give up a little distance for not picking out bird nests... not a bad trade off IMHO.

TnTom · 09-19-09, 09:02 PM

I usually do no more than rinse my spool bearing with kerosene removing the factory lube and re-lube with a few drops of Tetra gun oil.

I cut gears for about 40 years. Big spurs and spiral bevels to the minute ring and pinions straight bevel small enough that a pair would fit on the nail of your little finger. There is nothing we can do to a gear-set in our reels that would improve them. Unless there is a visible burr that didn't get removed in the manufacturing process we really can screw up a pair of gears (unless they are made in China ....). Lapping MAY reduce some of the torque and quiet a noisy gear-set but I have never had any reason to. If you have your reel opened up use a eye-loop and look for a hanging burr at the toe of the gear tooth. You shouldn't see any but minimizing the finishing time is a method that manufacturing uses to reduce cost BIG TIME. A hanging burr should be removed carefully using a carbide knife and make sure you don't drop the burr into the works unknowingly.Then with some 2000 grit emery or a very fine stone touch up the toe edge only. If a burr exists, and they do, removing it is good. If it breaks off with use and falls into the works it will ruin your reel.

There are some really good DVD's for the Shimano cleaning and tuning and with a proper initial cleaning you can pick up an easy 25'. The principals are the same across the board. Replace junk bearings.

nofearengineer · 09-19-09, 10:36 PM

Good to hear from a gear expert Tom. Though I am an Electrical guy, I really became somewhat obsessed with clock movements a few years ago, learning about involute and epicycloidal gears. I even designed a variant of a clock escapement that is on my list of stuff to build before I croak. Ever do any big planetary gearsets?

TnTom · 10-05-09, 02:25 PM

Big planetaries? Long Long ago....Meihle Goss Dexter printing press and folders. In the cutting cylinders. Quite a experience. Any newspaper that's a newspaper run the MGD's (Rockwell International Graphic Systems Division). When you see a movie with a seen in the press room of a paper the equipment is MGD folders. Opps oh subject again

bassintom · 10-06-09, 10:07 AM

I have "tuned " all my Curados. Did all the gears (not the teeth) and shafts. Then lubed with hot sauce. They all performed better than out of the box. Use very fine emery paper. Do not overdo it.

09-07-09, 09:54 PM	#1
fishin' fool BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Iowa Posts: 184	Super tuning baitcasters I know this was a post a while back, but I was wondering if anyone has tried this. I read the steps online and it doesn't look tobad. I'm thinking about trying it on one of my reels. Any tips or suggestions? Thanks and good fishin'

09-08-09, 08:28 PM	#4
dodgeguy BassFishin.Com Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: poughkeepsie,n.y. Posts: 930	or just buy a pflueger patriarch xt. __________________ chrysler master tech,avid fisherman and i bleed red,white and blue!!!!

09-09-09, 09:58 AM	#5
basstech BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Rockford, Ill Posts: 489	I did what what I would call a half super tuning, didn't take sand paper to anything but polished all the gears inside and out after doing a thorough cleaning. Made sure I got all the tarnished copper or brass parts perfectly clean. also polished the spool post. I used a fairly heavy rubbing compound with a roto-tool nylon brush. I did make a pretty big difference. I only did this to several reels though. __________________ The words just won't come to me!:confused:

09-09-09, 01:14 PM	#6
nofearengineer BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southwest IN Posts: 5,630	I hate to tell you guys this, but polishing those gears is not necessarily a good idea, even though I have to admit, it does look sweet. Those gears are typically involute spur gears, where the faces of the gears are not supposed to be rubbing together anyway; they should be rolling against each other. The "magic" of how they work is in their geometry, not in their shinyness. Remember, they are not a bearing. In fact, for slow operation (slow compared to motorized gears), the miniscule pits in the gears can hold excess lubrication, which can be a good thing. If you were looking to perfect the gearing of an astronomical device or a precision timing device, I could understand it. For a fishing reel, it's really overkill. A waste of time, in my humble opinion. Spend your money on better spool bearings if you must. __________________ Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.

09-09-09, 02:22 PM	#7
basstech BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Rockford, Ill Posts: 489	Thanks for the additional info, that would explain why my the drag on those became a bit touchier and inconsistant. I will atest to this though, as far as spool rotation goes, I think polishing the inner walls of the pinion gear where the spool post goes through helps as well as cleaning and oiling everything else that actually comes into contact with the spool post. I will leave the gear and washer faces alone for now on other than normal cleaning and lube. __________________ The words just won't come to me!:confused:

09-08-09, 09:45 AM	#2
doc BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,134	IF it ain't broke don't fix it, especally if it's an expensive reel. Is my opinion, if you do try it post back and let us know how it goes

09-08-09, 01:20 PM	#3
Raul BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,030	Tunning a reel can be a pretty expensive bet, when you are finally done you could have purchased a reel that already had all the goodies you wanted in your least expensive reel. There are ways to improve the reel performance without tunning, the cheapest is by changing the lubricants you currently are using, grease like Reel Butter on your gearing will make the reel silky smooth, for better casting you can change your spool supporting bearing´s oil for a low viscosity oil like Rocket Fuel ( but you´ll have to oil more frequently ) will gain you a couple extra yards. The next step of upgrading the reel would be tweaking with the gearing ( polishing it ) and to change the spool supporting bearings for ceramic type bearings, also, changing the drag pads for another material like Carbontex will make the drag more fluid and responsive. The next step of upgrading would include a better spool and some extras like reducing the weight by changing the handle.

09-09-09, 03:26 PM	#8
nofearengineer BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southwest IN Posts: 5,630	I hope you know I meant the faces of the teeth, not the flat side of the gear itself. My terminology stinks. __________________ Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.

09-09-09, 03:42 PM	#9
basstech BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Rockford, Ill Posts: 489	No I thought you meant the faces. Didn't do the teath, for once laziness pays off, but that being the case, do you have any explanation after doing the faces why the drag would become so touchy and inconsistent. I'll have it set so it pulls line out stiffly but smooth, then after fishing a few hours, it feels likes it's locked down untill i pull a few inches out and then it is smooth at the same tension. I did grease the metal washers well so they wouldn't stick. Would oil be better? These are older citica's and curado's I'm using and I did actually change out drag washers but still have the same problem. __________________ The words just won't come to me!:confused:

09-09-09, 04:59 PM	#12
BigBassin144 BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Toledo, Ohio Posts: 9,463	When you say Supertuning, are you refering to polishing the surfaces the bearings touch, or that cause friction, like in this article (http://www.ultimatebass.com/content/view/72/83/1/1/), or are you talking about adding high end parts like upgrading drag, bearings, handle, spool, etc.? BB __________________ As of June 14, 2014 the members of the BF.com forum have moved to basschat.yuku.com!

09-19-09, 09:02 PM	#15
TnTom BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Woodbury Tn Posts: 119	I usually do no more than rinse my spool bearing with kerosene removing the factory lube and re-lube with a few drops of Tetra gun oil. I cut gears for about 40 years. Big spurs and spiral bevels to the minute ring and pinions straight bevel small enough that a pair would fit on the nail of your little finger. There is nothing we can do to a gear-set in our reels that would improve them. Unless there is a visible burr that didn't get removed in the manufacturing process we really can screw up a pair of gears (unless they are made in China ....). Lapping MAY reduce some of the torque and quiet a noisy gear-set but I have never had any reason to. If you have your reel opened up use a eye-loop and look for a hanging burr at the toe of the gear tooth. You shouldn't see any but minimizing the finishing time is a method that manufacturing uses to reduce cost BIG TIME. A hanging burr should be removed carefully using a carbide knife and make sure you don't drop the burr into the works unknowingly.Then with some 2000 grit emery or a very fine stone touch up the toe edge only. If a burr exists, and they do, removing it is good. If it breaks off with use and falls into the works it will ruin your reel. There are some really good DVD's for the Shimano cleaning and tuning and with a proper initial cleaning you can pick up an easy 25'. The principals are the same across the board. Replace junk bearings.

09-19-09, 10:36 PM	#16
nofearengineer BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southwest IN Posts: 5,630	Good to hear from a gear expert Tom. Though I am an Electrical guy, I really became somewhat obsessed with clock movements a few years ago, learning about involute and epicycloidal gears. I even designed a variant of a clock escapement that is on my list of stuff to build before I croak. Ever do any big planetary gearsets? __________________ Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.

10-05-09, 02:25 PM	#17
TnTom BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Woodbury Tn Posts: 119	Big planetaries? Long Long ago....Meihle Goss Dexter printing press and folders. In the cutting cylinders. Quite a experience. Any newspaper that's a newspaper run the MGD's (Rockwell International Graphic Systems Division). When you see a movie with a seen in the press room of a paper the equipment is MGD folders. Opps oh subject again __________________ When fishin poles are outlawed only outlaws will have fishin poles and Shimano reels.

10-06-09, 10:07 AM	#18
bassintom BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: washington(northwest) N.J. Posts: 3,958	I have "tuned " all my Curados. Did all the gears (not the teeth) and shafts. Then lubed with hot sauce. They all performed better than out of the box. Use very fine emery paper. Do not overdo it. __________________ A man's gotta believe in something...I believe I'll go fishing.

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