Rod builders help!

[Imgoodatwhatido]

I am warming up to the idea of building my own rods and already have my first blank picked out. I haven't had the $ to buy the wrapper I want since I just shelled out $ for 4 new rods an 6 new reels that I NEEDED. Meanwhile, I have a old Quantum fishin' system crankin' rod that I absolutely LOVE. Well the other day on the water I had a crankbait reel lose about 50 feet of line when I casted. The line broke and my crankbait goes flyin. Good thing it was a floater. I had a spare reel so I took that reel off an replaced it. When I was crankin the replacement reel down on the seat of the rod the seat cracked ALLL TO PIECES. MADE ME SICK!!!! Now this rod looks like it just came off the shelf even though its probably 20 years old or more. It has double foot guides all the way up the blank and they are in EXCELLENT shape so I dont wanna tear the whole rod down and re-wrap it. Can i put a new real seat and grips on it from the butt end of the rod? I was going to use a minima seat and i know that i may have to build a small arbor, but do you fellas think this can be done. Also I plan on using foam grips. Im in love with this rod i sure would hate to have to tear the whole thing down

[BigBassin144]

Doing a handle from the bottom up is a challenge, but not impossible.

Normally, your cork or foam is reamed out on the inside with a taper similar to the rod, so you slide it down from the top to fit snugly where you want it. Doing it the other way means every piece has to be larger enough to fit over the butt of the rod.

It may be difficult to get an exposed reel seat, and especially a minima seat to sit well. It also depends on how much bigger the diameter of the rod is at the butt than where the reel seat will be.

The foam/cork should be too big a deal. You can use painter's tape or masking tape to make arbors for the grip material and fill the gaps in with epoxy.

One of the guys who builds rods more often can give you some more advice, and a good way to go about doing this.

BB

[Jrob78]

It can be done but I don't think an exposed style reel seat will work. Those seats have to fit tightly on the blank and you would have to go several sizes too big to get it over the butt. A traditional non-exposed seat would be your best option, they are meant to be used with arbors.

Is the grip you're replacing a full grip or split? If it is full you will have lots of old glue and a mess to try to cover, your best bet will be to replace with another full grip. You will have to ream your new grips large enough to fit over the butt and then make some type of arbor to make it snug otherwise your grip will be lose and mushy.

It can be done but some compromises will have to be made.

[Imgoodatwhatido]

it was a full grip but i made it into a split grip a few years ago. This is the only one of these rods i have ever seen. Its old as dirt but i love this rod. Ill figure somethin out i guess

[Bubba_Bruiser]

Sounds like masking tape will be your friend on this one for building up arbors though to install everything by going up the butt hahahahaha. If you want to keep a split grip though, I would try to sand the heavy glue with a low grit and then switch to a higher grit when you get to the blank to smooth it out and then lay a thread color or 2 in there. I don't know if I would go with a minima seat though do to the amount of material or lack there of, maybe an exposed seat, unless it has a very mild taper and depending on the handle length. All you need is a box, book, and some fingernail clippers to pack and burnish to put the thread on and it will cover up nicely, or it should in my mind.

[DVT Mike]

IMO a minima seat doesn't work well with an arbor. If anything I order them small and ream to fit precisley. Building from the butt end, you might get away with an exposed blank seat if the taper isn't too fast. EVA grips will stretch to fit. If you use cork, ream slowly and carefully keeping the rear part of the grip as tight as possible. You'll need to build up the blank under the front and middle of the grip. If you dont need to fill a lot of space D size thread will work well. For thicker arbors I prefer drywall mesh tape. Masking tape can be used, but for me that's usually a last resort. If you use tape arbors on anything, remember that they are just for fitting. Make sure the epoxy goes between the arbors bonding directly to the blank.

[WaffleJaw]

This will require alot of work and elbow grease...
Lot of old epoxy will have to be sanded down and removed..It aint fun.
Im not familiar with that rod,but I assume theres a forgrip? If not, you also may have to redo the buttwrap as well if there is one...You may crack the finish when removing the reel seat...I find older rod finish is more brittle (well most factory rods due to using too much hardener than resin)
But if its cracked during the process..and left untreated,water can seep in and fog up your finish...So look out for that as well.

Other than that all the other advice I agree with...I use D thread as well for shimming small gaps in grips..Doesnt have to be packed or perfect..just a few spiral wraps and generously coated with epoxy.
For bigger reel seat arbors Ive been using the Fiberglass mesh tape....for small arbors masking tape is fine...The thing is to completley drench the masking tape and encapsulate it to keep it water tight.

If D thread is too skinny for the grip shims...masking will work there too.
Id also advise against the Minima seat....I wouldnt want to shim those and most likely you will need an arbor....A standard Fuji TCSD seat mike be your best bet,but its hard to say without knowing the rods diameter,etc.
An ECS might work too,but you may a bigger gap than preferred between the blank and seat on the exposed area.

[Imgoodatwhatido]

lots of good advice and things I hadnt previously thought of. Thanks a lot guys. If i already had the wrapper i wanted i would go ahead and completely redo the rod, but i dont. This rod is primarily for large cranks and that part of the season is over for me right now so ive got the time to get it done. I throw small cranks this time of year and most of the time use a spinning rod for them. I may go ahead an strip it down to the bare blank an rebuild with micros and a minima seat. As far as wrappers go, is a hand wrapper a really big disadvantage or could a man do a quality job with one?

[WaffleJaw]

Originally Posted by Imgoodatwhatido

lots of good advice and things I hadnt previously thought of. Thanks a lot guys. If i already had the wrapper i wanted i would go ahead and completely redo the rod, but i dont. This rod is primarily for large cranks and that part of the season is over for me right now so ive got the time to get it done. I throw small cranks this time of year and most of the time use a spinning rod for them. I may go ahead an strip it down to the bare blank an rebuild with micros and a minima seat. As far as wrappers go, is a hand wrapper a really big disadvantage or could a man do a quality job with one?

All I use is my hand wrapper...I dont think any of us use power wrappers.
I thought about investing in one for awhile,but I really dont think I would use it as much as I think...From most people perspectives...Hand wrappers are still the best for doing small detail wraps and smaller diameter rods....Power wrappers become more useful on big diameter rods (saltwater)...They can also be useful for long under wrap.
But really its all preference.

I like wrapping at my own speed...which increases and decreases as I work..A power wrapper can dial different speeds,however,if you mess up or overlap...I think you have to remove the drive belt to back up the chuck to fix the mistake...I dont think they reverse.
I actually have a friend that leaves the belt off and hands wraps on them because he likes the stands but hates using the power feature.

I built my own hand wrapper/thread carriage..I know Jrob78 did too.
There very easy to make,way cheaper,and work much better (imo) than the store bought ones.
This is my current one....I think its a 3' base....I am wanting to extend the base to about 6' and add another stand...But it works perfectly for what I do.

[Imgoodatwhatido]

I just got the rod stripped. Ok so this rod has an arbor on it and the blank doesnt run the entire length.

[WaffleJaw]

Post pics if you can.

[Imgoodatwhatido]

[Imgoodatwhatido]

Ive took a box knife and seperated the rod from the arbor. I have it sanded also. Your rod wrapper looks GREAT i think i will try to build one similar to that myself. I love how you used the rod eyes for your thread guide thats a great idea.

[WaffleJaw]

So is that separate piece just an extension?
Havent seen that config yet..Most that I repair are all one piece.
How was that separate piece set up on the rod?

[Imgoodatwhatido]

the seperate piece was 11 inches and the blank ran 4 inches inside of it and was glued. The total rod length was 7 feet. I was suprised to find that its not a one piece rod. I have muscled up some big hard fightin smallmouth with this rod and it flexes from butt to tip and has EXCELLENT action.

[WaffleJaw]

Originally Posted by Imgoodatwhatido

the seperate piece was 11 inches and the blank ran 4 inches inside of it and was glued. The total rod length was 7 feet. I was suprised to find that its not a one piece rod. I have muscled up some big hard fightin smallmouth with this rod and it flexes from butt to tip and has EXCELLENT action.

Thats what I thought...
Extension dont hurt anything...Its ****ty they did that though...But Ive done a few and none have given me any issues....To keep the rod at 7' you'll have to epoxy it back on..You want it tight and about 4-6'' (about what they already had it)..If the extension is a little loose,you can shim it tight with a few turns of masking tape till you get a tight fit...use a 2 part epoxy (I use golf shafting epoxy for metal to metal contact) and set it.

After 24 hours you should be able to rebuild the handle like normal...I like to keep the reel seat around the connection.
Hell you could do a mock up with the components,put the reel on and find the balance point on the rod before you glue anything...Make a few test cast,see if it feels good,then glue it.

The sanding job looks great btw!...Should make it easier to install everything!

[Imgoodatwhatido]

i was thinkin about addin a couple inches to the length of the rod. I have a Team Daiwa Flipping stick that i could get another extension tube from. I have a belt/disc combo table sander that i used to get all the epoxy off

[Jrob78]

I've never heard of a factory rod with an extension like that. Rod builders extend blanks all the time and if done correctly it doesn't subtract anything from the rod.

I will add that building your own hand wrapper is definitely the way to go. You can make it much better and much cheaper than what you can buy. I think until you've built a great many rods a power wrapper causes more problems than it solves.

Here's a crappy picture of mine. It is 4' long with an extra stand alone support and all supports and the thread carriage move the full length of the stand.

Looks like you are doing a nice job btw.

[WaffleJaw]

Sounds like a plan...Just be careful with the sander...You dont want to sand into the actual blank and fibers.
Most of the sanding I do by hand...If exposed blank is near by the area...wrap it with masking tape to protect it.

Also remember that added more length adds a faster action....When you deduct from a blank,it slows it down...adding is the opposite.

[Imgoodatwhatido]

This rod is a Quantum Fishin System Crankin rod. It originally came with the quantum 381 crankin reel. Im not sure what year it was made i assume sometime in the 80's. If i add any i will probally add only 2-4".

[Imgoodatwhatido]

Well I got my reel seat in today and got this rod all glued up, assembled, and got the winding checks in place. I shortened the hood screw because it was longer than I needed. I still got some light sanding to do, but overall im very happy with it. the finished weight is 2.82 ounces. Pretty light!

[Jrob78]

Nice work man! Looks great!

[Imgoodatwhatido]

thanks man