Braided Line Knots....Please Help me!

[BigNiner19]

So...Im new to the braided line scene. I picked up some sufix performance braid from bass pro yesterday. I got the 10LB version, cuz i wanted to try it on my small bass reel first to see if I liked the feel, and how it casts etc.... So I spooled it up with about a 10-15 yard backing of 8lb mono line. Tried out the new setup today....loved it. Caught 2 nice pea's...and numerous 1-2 lb largies. Also got one over 2lbs.

I was using a original floater rapala lure, and I tied a clinch knot from the braid to the lure. The knot was really tite, I even put a lot of good pressure on it and it wouldnt snap. However, on about the 8th bass I caught later on in the day. The lure snapped off with the fish, and i looked at the end of my line on the braid. The knot isnt what broke. It was the single loop around the eye of the lure that basically tore/broke/snapped just below the knot. Almost like the braid cut itself or something.

Anyone have some input for me on this, so I will not lose lures in the future to this problem. I would hate to have to tie a leader on there....it would effect the action of some of the lures I use for bass and peas.

Cory

[JB]

try the polomer knot

[Deacon]

As usual Jb is right....Palomar Knot!!!!!!

[BigNiner19]

Ive read now...doing research on braided line. Possibly the better thing to do is tie a light mono leader to the braid so that the mono line is being tied to the lure. The braided line, I have read, isnt very tough against abrasion....and mono is. This is why my braid snapped apparently. Since the knot was still a good knot.

This palomar knot will fight the abrasion and not let the braid cut or break around the metal eye of a rapala ?

Cory

[skeeter944]

welcome to the forum bigniner! what jb and deacon said,the palomar knot.

[BigNiner19]

so the palomar knot is a strong knot that doesnt have much abrasion on the braided line?

[weaverml34]

Bigniner,

Braid isn't any different than any other line. You still need to check it after every fish to make sure your knot is still good and there aren't any nicks in your line. Knots tend to come undone a little easier with braided line. Like the rest said use a palamor knot and make sure you wet your line real good before you cinch the knot. This will help ensure that it is really tight. Again after every fish just give your lure a good tug to ensure that the knot is tight for the next fish.

[BigNiner19]

thats just it though...I did check with a tug...and I even looked at the knot...and Ive been fishing for a long time...and this is just my first time with braid....The knot looked perfect and felt strong...I just think abrasion from the metal eye of the rapala that the knot was tied to wore down the braid. I think im gonna tie a light mono leader and see how that works....

Unless this palomar knot everyone has said, protects the braid from the abrasion that my clinch knot had.

Cory

[FlyRod]

Originally Posted by BigNiner19

Ive read now...doing research on braided line. Possibly the better thing to do is tie a light mono leader to the braid so that the mono line is being tied to the lure. The braided line, I have read, isnt very tough against abrasion....and mono is. This is why my braid snapped apparently. Since the knot was still a good knot.

This palomar knot will fight the abrasion and not let the braid cut or break around the metal eye of a rapala ?

Cory

Ahem...Rejoice, Dear Hearts, for the Professor is IN!

BigNiner,

First...When you tied the braid onto the SPLIT RING you may well have tied it so that the knot was smack where the ends of the ring don't quite meet. That is often a recipe for disaster.
Seek and purchase some oval or pear-shaped split rings. Replace the round ones on ALL your lures. Then when you tie on, you'll be able to easily avoid the danger zone. If using the pear-shaped rings be sure that the knot is at the narrow end of the ring.
Yes, use the Palomar, and ONLY the Palomar. Thus, you will have two strands of line around a split ring or hook eye.
Now, before you decide to use a regular MONO leader...DON'T!!!
Braid can saw through any line, but mono is especially vulnerable.
IF you use a leader, (and I DO, 'cept for spinnerbaits, buzzzzzzzzzzzbaits, toads, and frawgs) then purchase some fluorocarbon LEADER material (not regular fluoro line) such as P-Line offers in 25 meter spools. THAT is what you need. I usually use at least one test lighter fluoro so that the leader is slightly weaker than the braid, and never use any higher test than #25. In fact, I rarely ever exceed 20 lb test.
Now, you have some fluoro LEADER and you wanna attach it to braid...rotsa ruck! The knot is absolutely critical here.
Go to the DuPont (Stren) website, look up knots. Here you will encounter the fearsome "J-Knot". Using old braid and some mono (save that expen$ive fluoro for when you can actually tie the &%^$~! J-Knot) practice tying, wetting, and cinching until it looks like the finished product in the illlustrations. Then attach about 6 feet of REAL fluoro leader to REAL braid on your REAL REEL. Put a tiny drop of super-glue on the knot.
Tie on the selected hook or lure, using the Palomar ONLY. Go fish.
NOTE: When tying the Palomar you MUST not twist the loop before passing the hook/lure through it. If the line crosses itself, it is more likely to cut through itself.
I hope this helps.

FlyRod

[Christopherkeene9]

Bigniner thats what I do(tie mono leader). I use a uni to uni knot with about a 20lb. Ande mono leader. Works GREAT.

P.S Welcome to the forum, nice to see another Florida guy! Also by the way are you familiar with the Ft. Lauderdale area, specifically Port Everglades?


Christopher

[BigNiner19]

Originally Posted by Christopherkeene9

Bigniner thats what I do(tie mono leader). I use a uni to uni knot with about a 20lb. Ande mono leader. Works GREAT.

P.S Welcome to the forum, nice to see another Florida guy! Also by the way are you familiar with the Ft. Lauderdale area, specifically Port Everglades?


Christopher

I am quite familiar with it..I live in Jupiter Fl, as well as Davie FL (just west of port everglades). I am also more familiar with saltwater anglering rather than freshwater....but im trying to master both. These lighter line knots are killing me! thats why i decided to try braid for my bass reels.

CC

[Christopherkeene9]

niner you have a PM

[BigNiner19]

havin some trouble tying a palomar knot...should be simple...but i cant seem to get it right....i guess im doing the "overhand" part incorrectly.

CC

[Rebbasser]

Welcome to the forum, Bigniner!

Palomar is the way to go-here is a pretty good link:

http://www.fish4fun.com/palomarknot.htm

But it may not be the knot-it might be the line. Or more specifically, the line test. I have seen many reports over the years of 30 lb braid snapping like you are describing. I throw 50 lb braid, which has the same diamater as 12 lb mono and have never had a problem. Just some food for thought .

[dodgeguy]

and crazy glue it.

[BigNiner19]

since i could not seem to be able to do the polamar knot...what i did was I took the line...put it through the eye 3 times....and then preceded with a clinch knot. It feels REAL strong...i just put on gloves and yanked on it with a lot of pressure. Then again...I thought the other knot I tied was real strong as well....hopefully having three wraps around the eye will keep the knot stronger against abrasion.

CC

[islandbass]

Bigniner,

I too had trouble learning the palomar knot, but don't give up. It is THE knot for braid. The clinch knot is an a big no no in my book and it can slip no matter how well you tie your braid. The clinch knot is better left for mono and co-polymer lines.

Check out this link for an excellent visual to do the palomar and other knots.

http://www.animatedknots.com/indexfi...g.jpg&Website=

A mono leader couldn't hurt, but if the palomar is tied right and the braid's opacity (it is an opaque line) isn't a factor in your fishing, then the mono leader would most likely not need it. I use a mono leader on occassion if I believe it will be beneficial.

[FlyRod]

Originally Posted by BigNiner19

since i could not seem to be able to do the polamar knot...what i did was I took the line...put it through the eye 3 times....and then preceded with a clinch knot. It feels REAL strong...i just put on gloves and yanked on it with a lot of pressure. Then again...I thought the other knot I tied was real strong as well....hopefully having three wraps around the eye will keep the knot stronger against abrasion.

CC

B-9-R-19,
Do not give up! Learn the Palomar, then the *&%^$~! J-Knot. When using braid, as in many other endeavours (I threw the "u" in so our Canuck brothers could decipher this) in life, there are NO acceptable shortcuts.
Use the link Reb provided and practice! The Palomar is simple, though a bit aggravating when using long lures (See: Rogue, Zara Spook, etc.). The problem there is the line can get involved with the rear trebles, but there is an answer...called "hook bonnets".
I still maintain that one should use fluoro leaders when possible, save for surface and spinner baits. True fluoro leader material (See: P-Line's product or others) is the best option.
Braid?...PALOMAR!!! Leader?...Fluoro and J-Knot!!! J-Knot?...Pain in the A55!!!

Keep at it.

FR

[jrward]

Learn the palomar knot and move up in line test, once you get the hang of it, you'll never go back to mono.

[basser425]

I have a favorite wading only lake which I hit, one rod, multiple lure types, so I got into the use of a 20 lb. leader. This short 18" leader makes changing lures easier and then I may only have to retie the briad a few times throughout the day.
Andy

[skeeter944]

welcome to the forum basser!

[Snowman]

Welcome to the forum, I am a newbie as well.

I use the uni knot almost exclusively to tie on lures and hooks. Never had any problems with the knot slipping or breakage (but can be a bit of a hassel if you get snagged on a branch, etc. well under water as I have had to just cut the line). Also with the uni knot if you do not cinch it all the way down to the lure (and leave it as a loop) it give lures some unique and free action (work great with spoons, etc).

[links_man2]

I have been using a Uni-Knot for better than 30 years (yes---I am pretty old) and a Uni-to-Uni for connecting lines/leaders. It is simple, even in the dark, or without my bifocals and only problem I ever have is if I forget to wet it before I cinch it up.

I am sure there are other good knots, but I look at intructions for knots like the J-Knot and get cross eyed---maybe that's worse cross eyed.

If you learn the Uni Knot and Uni to Uni and you will have it covered. And as i said it is simple even for old stiff fingers. IMHO

[esquired]

Originally Posted by Christopherkeene9

Bigniner thats what I do(tie mono leader). I use a uni to uni knot with about a 20lb. Ande mono leader. Works GREAT.

P.S Welcome to the forum, nice to see another Florida guy! Also by the way are you familiar with the Ft. Lauderdale area, specifically Port Everglades?


Christopher

I always tie a foot or two of floro on my braid - uni-to uni is best. If you in a hurry or conditions are poor, tie a surgeons knot on the braid and a uni with the floro, works almost as well and is a lot easier

[FlyRod]

I've noted that some in this thread tie on a very short fluoro leader. WHY???

I tie on leaders (fluoro) of at least 6 feet, sometimes 7+. This adds to the sink rate (fluoro sinks readily), overcoming the natural tendency of braid to float AND catch the breeze.
Next, since some leader is lost when tying ANY knot, and especially the Palomar, a foot-long leader means that two reties = virtually NO leader left.
Well, if you tied on a fluoro leader for the sake of invisibilty, you've wasted time and fluoro 'cause the line may well be visible to the fish.
A dinky-short leader ALSO means more frequent need to retie a new leader. That= fishing time lost.
Now, on the rare occasion that I lose the entire leader I lose more expensive fluoro. OK, so what? It doesn't happen often and, to me at least, efficiency outweighs material costs . In other words, I'm gonna get some good mileage out of a leader before I need to replace it due to reties of hooks, breakage, whatever, and I can tie the new one on with, YES!, the J-Knot, in fairly short order.
BTW, those cute little three-bulb LED cap lights do the trick during periods of poor visibility. About 15 bux...
I usually keep the same leader until it is down to maybe two feet, then I tie on a new one.

FR