Looking For New Fishfinder

[nofearengineer]

Man...

Either I am just a perfectionist nit-picker, or the Fishfinder industry has conspired against me!!

I'm not asking for much.

All I want is

Sonar/GPS/Chartplotter Combo

12-channel GPS
83/200 kHz dual frequency transducer
5" minimum, 640 x 480 color display
Smartcraft capable (I have a Merc)
HotSpots Maps Capable

I can get all of those things in a Lowrance unit except the Smartcraft, since that's a proprietary Merc protocol. Lowrance and others use NMEA 2000. However, the Smartcraft is really nice since I would not have to buy the additional Mercury gauges to read all of my outboard's info (rpm, temp, oil pressure, tilt, speed, hours, etc.), and I could actually do things like TrollControl (sets outboard idle rpms) from the fishfinder.

To my knowledge, only Northstar and Navman make the Smartcraft compatible units and they are very nice, yet neither one of them has a color screen with an 83/200 kHz transducer and a screen larger than 340 x 234. Larger color screens only come on units with 50/200 kHz units. It's as if only ocean-going vessels need and/or want color screens larger than a Pop Tart.

Man, I'm getting discouraged. Surely, I can't be the only fisherman with this list of requirements.

[zooker]

don't your boat already have gauges that work??
troll control is designed for 4 stroke moters..-never seen it on a 2 stroker-
besides who the hell is TROLLING??this is a BASS site last i looked...

get your big ol mid western but in the bow-dats da pointy end-and start chunkin and winding...

trollin is for those old broken down bass anglers... i belive they call it walleye fishin or catfishin or some such thing..
iffin you want pap-paw engineer i WILL bring you a rockin chair and shawl to the get togather...that is ifin you don't need a walker to get to the boat by den...

mind you some of us are broken most are bent but we sure as hell aint old enogh to "sit" in the back and "watch" the water go by..


nuff said

zooker

[bassboogieman]

Agree w/Zook. GPS will give you your accurate speed. Oil pressure on a 2 stroke? Temp isn't a big deal either, you have an alarm you won't miss if it goes off. RPM - I'm reasonalby certain an Avalance comes with a tach. Tilt gauge really isn't necessary - I run mine by the seat of the pants, I know when I'm running correctly. Only thing having that info displayed on the unit would be to take up space, better utilized to display the sonar or GPS information. Oh crap I forgot - you're an ENGINEER, data freak. LOL!!

The new HD Lowrance units look mighty nice and for an extra couple hundred, may be an excellent choice. You can pick up the older (pre-HD), for reasonalbe prices from guys looking to upgrade. Lowrance works very well with the navigation chips - I prefer the Navionics over the HotSpot maps - I've used hotspots with a Garmin unit and found the Navionics to be superior for my needs.

If your set on a combo unit - don't buy a 5" screen, it's really too small to utilize both systems at the same time, especially if you're running down the water at speed. If you consider going to a 7" screen - the cost will be close to purchasing 2 seperate 5" units - a dedicated color sonar and color GPS. It's what I decided to do, I wouldn't want a combination unit - but that's a personal choice. Individual units gives you the entire 5" of screen for each, rather than a percentage of the 7" (I think you can set how much screen is devoted to each, it isn't restricted to 50%)

As far as manufacturers - my preference is Lowrance. But Hummingbird makes good stuff, as well as Garmin - but Garmin seems more expensive for comparable capibilities.
Don't forget a RAM mount, if you're not mounting a unit in the dash. With a RAM you can adjust the units for best visibility (color units are sometimes difficult to see due to sun glare). And you can turn them around to be visible from the front deck, should you need to.

[nofearengineer]

Okay...let me add a little bit of clarification.

I feel the Smartcraft information is valuable, since I can tell engine hours and precise rpms (the two most important to me), among other things. And TrollControl works great on Optimax's. Yes, some of the stats I mentioned are not as important on a 2-stroke. I only mentioned them as an example. There are tons more stats it can keep track of. And believe me, I have "beeped" my outboard three times...I know what it sounds like.

In order to read the Smartcraft data, I would need to buy an expensive gauge several companies make for Mercury engines. I'm just trying to not pay for these features twice...if they're available in a fishfinder, which I already need, why not go that route?

I agree the Lowrance HDS units look great, but they're not compatible with the Smartcraft, no matter how big the screen, and frankly, I've heard Lowrance is using the customer as their testing department on them.

Boogie...so you bought a separate 5" sonar and a 5" GPS/Chartplotter? I hope I understood that right. That's a great idea, but probably a little expensive for me right now. At least we agree on wanting all of the same functionality. If I bought a 5" now, I could just move it to the bow when/if I decided I could afford a bigger one at the helm.

I'm pretty sure the Northstar will take the Navionics as well...I haven't owned a chartplotter before, so I'm trying to pick one with as many options as possible. I only know the HotSpots Pro has the same good stuff I am used to looking at on their paper maps.

As far as trolling goes...Zook, I go fishing anywhere from 12-18 hours a day when I go. Believe me, kicking back and trolling while I'm eating my lunch, or just for a break from throwing is good fishing for me, regardless of what anyone else thinks. I have caught some big fish trolling, and hope to catch more. And besides, Walleye are tasty...and I just don't have any cranks in my bag that dive to 30 feet, and if I did, I wouldn't want to have to crank them.

Anyways, thanks for the constructive advice, Boogie.

[MississippiBoy]

Tell these guys trolling sucks:




These are from The Ross Barnett Reservoir, 10 minutes from my house.

[bamabassman]

mb, those are some nice jailbirds no doubt. BUT them are babies compared to what i have seen some others bring in. trolling is a great striper tech. but i still like to snag em, more fun. hehehehe.

[southernbassguy]

Originally Posted by bamabassman

mb, those are some nice jailbirds no doubt. BUT them are babies compared to what i have seen some others bring in. trolling is a great striper tech. but i still like to snag em, more fun. hehehehe.

now you wouldn't be talking about those monsters up there on Smith or down south on Lake Martin would ya.?

[Captmikestarrett]

I am waiting till Smartcraft gets wise enough to create an interface to my MNEA2000 Lowarance network. It will happen as Smartcraft is so Merc only and Merc is going to need those extra dollars by the end of the year. I forsee a small box with both connections on it and some ram to back up on-board engine systems. Merc signed the MNEA 2000 standard agreement and then just forgot about it. It will happen..

Capt Mike

[nofearengineer]

Thanks for that, Mike! Yes, I am hoping by the time I get ready to pull the monkey trigger, the problem will have solved itself and Merc will have abandoned their proprietary ways (at least in this instance...others? I doubt it)

[Captmikestarrett]

Boogyman my network has a fuel sensor so I can find that point in the throttle that moves me the best for less. If I connect to the engine computer I get:

Left and right head temp
Left and right water presure
Time run
Any error codes
Oil pressure
history of rpm
RPM
and a bunch more stuff.

It could be very helpfull.

Capt Mike

[BassMoJo]

I recently bought an HDS-5 W/ Nautic Insight I love it! And I suppose I am gonna love it even more when they come out with the Side Imaging (Structure Scan)

[nofearengineer]

Yeah, the HDS series is pretty much to drool over. Very pretty. I don't really need the Nautic Insight though. My boat will likely never come close to the coast. Yeah, side-imaging would be a great add-on to that unit. I wonder if it will be expensive to add or they will be reasonable with it out of appreciation you bought their unit before they got it all figured out.

[bassboogieman]

If the smart gauges work for you that's fine. I run a Yammie so I don't know much about them. Seems like a lot of redundant information to me, especially if they take up screen space on the Sonar/GPS. The regular gauges are easy enough to read and cover most of what I need. If your talking seperate gauges that replace the usual analog gauges, that's a different animal, I think "NFE" was saying they were displayed on the Sonar/GPS unit.
Speaking purely from my own situation, the error codes won't do me any good as I don't have a shop manual to decipher them, and the computer on the newer engines can be read in the shop - where my work gets done, because I don't mess with much more than simple replacement parts. History of RPM is really only good for the manufacturer to make sure you do a proper break-in and don't over rev your outboard - so they can disregard any warranty claims - LOL.
But yes, I see where the information COULD be helpful if you do a lot of your own work, I don't have that much mechanical skill. And, as far as running the best for least, that doesn't apply either as I don't get to run my outboard as often as I like, so when I do - you guessed it, it's hammer down and chine walking at redline. HA!
I'm just guessing that "NFE" is a data fanatic who get's high on sensory overload. That's cool too, but I need to keep it simple. Different strokes, etc.

[nofearengineer]

Originally Posted by bassboogieman

If the smart gauges work for you that's fine. I run a Yammie so I don't know much about them. Seems like a lot of redundant information to me, especially if they take up screen space on the Sonar/GPS. The regular gauges are easy enough to read and cover most of what I need. If your talking seperate gauges that replace the usual analog gauges, that's a different animal, I think "NFE" was saying they were displayed on the Sonar/GPS unit.
Speaking purely from my own situation, the error codes won't do me any good as I don't have a shop manual to decipher them, and the computer on the newer engines can be read in the shop - where my work gets done, because I don't mess with much more than simple replacement parts. History of RPM is really only good for the manufacturer to make sure you do a proper break-in and don't over rev your outboard - so they can disregard any warranty claims - LOL.
But yes, I see where the information COULD be helpful if you do a lot of your own work, I don't have that much mechanical skill. And, as far as running the best for least, that doesn't apply either as I don't get to run my outboard as often as I like, so when I do - you guessed it, it's hammer down and chine walking at redline. HA!
I'm just guessing that "NFE" is a data fanatic who get's high on sensory overload. That's cool too, but I need to keep it simple. Different strokes, etc.

Haha, yeah I am a data junkie, Boogie. Without data, what would I base all of my perpetual over-analysis on?

Yes, it's funny how people will talk about how inaccurate your analog speedo is, and how you should get a GPS (which is usually, but not necessarily more accurate), and then turn around and in the same breath mock you for not trusting your other analog gauges.

You're correct, I am not wanting to buy the real world gauges, if I can save a few bucks by using "virtual" gauges which I'm paying for anyway just to get a fish finder which meets my other requirements. Bang for the buck, in my mind.

I just want to be able to mark a spot that has good sonar readings on my chart, and be able to find it, stay on it, and return to it any time in the future. For now, I'm stuck tossing buoys out hehe. I just hope the bass don't take it personally when the weight smacks 'em on the noggin on the way down.

[bamabassman]

southern.............yes i am buddy. see that oyu are in b'ham. i am from just north of there, hayden. grew up snagging form the spillways on smith. HUGE jailbirds, 30-50 pounds at least. deep sea fishing gear is REQUIRED for doing this type of fishing.

[bassboogieman]

I'm happy we could share a chuckle. As far as the analog speedo - I don't know why they even put them on a boat. The operate on air pressure as a result of water pressure in the pick-up tube. I don't know how that can be accurate. When my speedo worked (I don't even bother to clean out the pick-up anymore) it was off 3 - 5 MPH over a GPS, no big deal and speed isn't really that relavent except for a few speed junkies that spend a lot of $$$$ for a MPH or two. There can be a minor error in GPS speed as it is measured in a straight line by the satellites, but not as great as the air pressure speedo.
The other analog gauges are much more accurate as they are electronic with the exception of the water pressure gauge which works on direct water pressure. Those gauges are about as accurate as those in your land vehicle, and I do trust them.
If you are looking for new NFE, this online source has decent prices - under BPS or Cabela's usually. They carry Lowrance, Eagle, Garmin, and Hummingbird. Easy to do some comparison shopping. http://www.threeriversmarine.net/page/page/2298356.htm