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Old 05-03-12, 02:57 PM   #1
gonefishin3
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Default Hds

Im finally going to dish out and get new electronics I've decided with an 8 and a 10 and I can always switch them back and fourth what I need to know is... what cables do I need to link the two? Together and accesories and things I need to set them up on my boat... for the front graph what transducer gaurd to I look at? Should I really get two sonar pucks like the pros have? One on the back and one on the front? Thanks!
GF3
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Old 05-04-12, 02:02 PM   #2
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The 8 and 10 will come with their own 2D sonar ducers, so yes you will want to use both of them and have dedicated ducers at the trolling motor and in the back. Ethernet-link is the way to go (yellow cable), so you will need one 15-ft Ethernet cable to hook directly to each unit. The first accesssory you want to look at is the StructureScan (side and downscan), as it has remarkable clarity and target resolution, and allows you to cover 10X the bottom (compared to 2D sonar) when idling and looking for places to fish.
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Old 05-04-12, 03:07 PM   #3
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Listen to Todd. I did and haven't regretted one piece of advice he gave me on my Units. Todd is the MAN!
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Old 05-04-12, 04:27 PM   #4
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Yes im going to want side scan in the front and in the back but I want them both seperate all I want is the waypoints to be shared...(I think that's a settings thing) theres something called structurescan hd ? Is that what I need. to get my side scan ? Do I need two units one for front and one for the back? What is a broadband radar? How is it different from a HD Digital radar... I've got to do this order all at onece.... and I would like to get everything I need for a professional set up... I was watching some video and they say you want two different systems because as your drop shotting a bush you don't want it bieing 20 feet behind you.... Also when you make a way point if you make a waypoint on the back and go to the front to try to find it it could be in a 20 foot circle because you don't have 2 gps pucks... one in front and one in back? Am I getting this right? also what do I need to hook up sirus xm to them? Thankyou!

P.s. what's the difference in the hds gen 2 M models and the hds gen2 models?

Last edited by gonefishin3; 05-04-12 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 05-06-12, 10:14 AM   #5
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No doubt, you absolutely want independent 2D sonar transducers up front and in back. I would say that two StructureScans would be entirely optional. 2D sonar is what you would use to watch your lure as you vertically fish, as it provides a wide cone of coverage (cone diameter 1/3 of water depth). You can't do this with StructureScan, as it's coverage is a narrow beam (can't keep your lure in this narrow beam).

StructureScan only supports one ducer, so to have independent StructureScan ducers on the trolling motor and in the back, you will need to purchase two StructureScans. You would then link the two StructureScan modules together with Ethernet cables, then run an Ethernet cable from the modules to the respective HDS units. With Ethernet link, wpt sharing is automatic and complete (new wpts, wpt edits, deletions). StructureScan HD has replaced the original StructureScan.

All HDS units come with very functional internal GPS antennas, so wpts you mark will be based on the lat/longs from that unit, so no concerns regarding the potential 20-feet error you mention. The LGC-4000 external antenna is another option, and if you went this route you would need to get one for each unit, plus you would need to install the NMEA 2000 network. The 4000s provide a GPS position update 5X/sec, while the internals 1X/sec.

For Sirius radio, you would need the Lowrance LWX-1 Sirius antenna, which connects via the provided Ethernet cable to either the HDS unit direct or thru one of the Ethernet ports on the StructureScan. Here, I would also recommend the SonicHub (allows your HDS units to serve as your radio interface).

HDS units are coded like this:

HDS 5 - GPS and sonar
HDS 5M - GPS only
HDS 5X - sonar only

Download the 2012 product catalog here:

http://www.lowrance.com/en/Downloads/Catalogs/
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Old 05-06-12, 06:05 PM   #6
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Default Outstanding post/question and answers.

What the heck did we ever do before the ole www

I think one follow up post should be the total net cost for the system you have specked out here.
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Old 05-07-12, 08:00 AM   #7
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Well the info was specific,cost is astronomical,and exponential with each station requiring its own hardware,not to mention the cost of each unit,havnt got that much $ in my bass boat.
Do have 3 d birds,50 each off ebay,vision and view,etc complete with a switch can read front or back either or with a y cable as well.
To someone wanting said eq it was a help full post.
Dont know if lowrance is same,but with a bird its a one way trip to the comp,can upload not download,they dont read saved tracs.So other than creating a log or viewing the info not of much use,to me anyway.
And I just love seeing all those boys out there with the fancy jack plate mountings idling around to find structure,it means they dont have a clue where its at or where to fish.
That feature on my birds are about as usefull as the advanced fishing system that humminbird produces-or as rsl-remote-toy
Their are of course ways around such with mapping programs like enc.

Last edited by lilmule; 05-07-12 at 08:13 AM.
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Old 05-07-12, 09:30 AM   #8
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okay so heres my list thus far
hds2-10
hds2-8
2 ethernet cables
2 structurescan Hd's
Lowrance LWX-1 Sirius antenna
SonicHub
2 LGC-4000 external antenna
on the internal antenas... how fast can you be going for them to be working/ keeping up with you? can you be going 50 mph and they be responding? for the when ive used the indipendent structurescan on the trolling motor before it has had interference while running.. is there a way to stop that interference now? on the old Hds's there was something called basemaping and insight.. do i need to worry about that anymore? Also i want to be able to switch the units around put the 10 in the front and the 8 in the back or opposite of that... is ram mounts my best choice?

Last edited by gonefishin3; 05-07-12 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 05-07-12, 10:38 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonefishin3 View Post
okay so heres my list thus far
hds2-10
hds2-8
2 ethernet cables
2 structurescan Hd's
Lowrance LWX-1 Sirius antenna
SonicHub
2 LGC-4000 external antenna
on the internal antenas... how fast can you be going for them to be working/ keeping up with you? can you be going 50 mph and they be responding? for the when ive used the indipendent structurescan on the trolling motor before it has had interference while running.. is there a way to stop that interference now? on the old Hds's there was something called basemaping and insight.. do i need to worry about that anymore? Also i want to be able to switch the units around put the 10 in the front and the 8 in the back or opposite of that... is ram mounts my best choice?
On the list, each of the StructureScans come with a 15-ft Ethernet cable, so you won't need the extra two cables. Both the SonicHub and LGC-4000s are NMEA 2000 devices, so you will need to install the NMEA 2000 network. See the link below for a description of it. If you purchase the NMEA 2000 starter kit (N2K-EXP-RD-2), you will have almost all you need. You will need an additional network tee, an additional 15-ft network extention cable, and a couple of 6-ft network cables (to go to your HDS units).

NMEA networks:
http://www.lowrance.com/upload/Lowra...173_112006.pdf

Navico store to purchase NMEA 2000 components
http://store.navico.com/

IMO, RAM mounts are the only way to go.

You still have Basemap and Insight to choose from. Insight gives you 3D shaded relief at certain zoom levels, whereas basemap does not.

The internal antennas work great, even at 70+ MPH. Because of the more frequent updates provided by the 4000s, they tend to eliminate some of the loss of direction (north-south) and map rotation when moving relatively little (i.e, vertically fishing ledges or brushpiles).

Some interference when using StructureScan on TM is still there, and is due to how sensitive and powerful the technology is. It is caused by the vibration/movement of the TM foot when prop is turning.
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Old 05-07-12, 11:47 AM   #10
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Is there not a nmea package from lowrance? Thanks for all your help ill prolly ask more questions later! Thanks,
Gf3
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Old 05-07-12, 01:05 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by gonefishin3 View Post
Is there not a nmea package from lowrance? Thanks for all your help ill prolly ask more questions later! Thanks,
Gf3
Navico owns both Lowrance and Simrad.
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Old 05-08-12, 04:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd Driscoll View Post
No doubt, you absolutely want independent 2D sonar transducers up front and in back. I would say that two StructureScans would be entirely optional. 2D sonar is what you would use to watch your lure as you vertically fish, as it provides a wide cone of coverage (cone diameter 1/3 of water depth). You can't do this with StructureScan, as it's coverage is a narrow beam (can't keep your lure in this narrow beam).

StructureScan only supports one ducer, so to have independent StructureScan ducers on the trolling motor and in the back, you will need to purchase two StructureScans. You would then link the two StructureScan modules together with Ethernet cables, then run an Ethernet cable from the modules to the respective HDS units. With Ethernet link, wpt sharing is automatic and complete (new wpts, wpt edits, deletions). StructureScan HD has replaced the original StructureScan.

This is the best advice given on this whole thread. The extra money spent on setting up for Structure Scan for the front of the boat is, in my opinion, a giant waste. Think about whats will happen to your display when you spin your troller....It's going to skew the readings to a point where what you're seeing isn't accurate. Save the $$ or better yet, take that and make the 2nd unit an HDS 10.
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Old 05-08-12, 04:56 PM   #13
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As he can tell you scroll rate helps that,ive got 3 d front and back via a switch two ducers one unit,adding another unit at console via a y cable.Front is not messed up with correct setting for moving it.Then again not running low am a bird of a different feather.
I dont feel I need 3 k of 180 deg stuff so have 300 hundred dollars of 90 stuff,front back readings.
Mine are on transom and troller ,tsw1 switch and do read on plane,the more expensive it is the more specific it is.But with the proper settings they all work on the front end or can,or on the transom on plane,as should auto switch to a narrower beam,at 60 mph or greater dont know anyone would want to study a wide view.And dont see the need to idle around to be able to use,can use it on the front,1 sec after turning its a good pic,and dont turn mine much park over a ledge,use it to position boat and find out how they relate to it that particular day.

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Old 05-08-12, 09:46 PM   #14
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Sorry mule, but if your are not familiar with how Structure Scan, or Side Imaging on a Bird, works you really can't speak as to what will and won't work on the front.

Your "300 dollars of 90 dollar stuff" isn't in the same world as this equipment.
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Old 05-08-12, 10:37 PM   #15
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Its not 180 degree but is 90 degree and under $300, is a sf,180-physically larger screens,and a 6 in puck instead of a 4 in and more specialized far more expensive.
As you can tell they arnt making any 3k sales here.
In defense of mine it gives a good pic on the troller.
In the right hands a great tool,but one that is overrated-just my own opinion.Ive seen hd 5-8 and bigger birds other than a wider view showed me very lil I didnt know as had covered them back and forth prior with less screen just didnt see it all at one time.
I have mine on front and back on the bow unit simply because I live on Ky lake and park on a ledge often,use to positon me not entertain me.Have a tv set at home.
Regardless of if you think I know or dont know how they work the majority that own them dont know how to work them,just another toy.
I use a hand control troller seldom have to move it much touch a foot button for on and off to stay in place,someone with a foot control having a heavy foot yes might just have pic trouble.
I also have a menu selection for the beams desired.If the lake is pitching and rolling minimize it,reduce gain and reduce area covered will settle down,also can switch to transducer on the transom to which troller wont interfere.For 3k will sell you a bass boat with a 150 hp,no electronics of course.Take that back you can have the 785c2i,with its advanced fishing system and remote asrsl with puck as it as well is a toy.A great chartplotter somewhat lacking in sonar and support.

Last edited by lilmule; 05-09-12 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 05-13-12, 09:35 PM   #16
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Default This post inspired me... Thanks!

I am upgrading my electronics to the exact match to Ehrler's system.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=mXggXO_JmAI#!

I will post pics when it is done.
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Old 05-22-12, 11:52 PM   #17
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I appologise for the long absince life got hectic there for a bit. Ive decided to just get basics and not do a sonic hub or anything yet, heres my list i think this is correct....

HDS-10 Gen2
Fishfinder/Chartplotter
Insight™ USA
HDS-8 Gen2
Fishfinder/Chartplotter
Insight™ USA
Trolling Motor Bracket for
LSS-1 Imaging or
83/200 kHz Transducer
Two LSS-1 StructureScan® Sonar Imaging
with Bronze Thru-Hull Transducer
Two LGC-4000 High-Speed GPS Antennas
(transom and bow HDS)
Skimmer® | In-Hull | Thru-Hull
83/200 kHz Transducer
one 15 foot Ethernet cable
Two Plastic Thru-Hull
LSS-1 StructureScan 455/800 kHz
Imaging Transducer
This should get me downscan sideimageing and 2D in the front and in the back and be able to link way points between the two units. Am i Correct?
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Old 05-23-12, 05:04 AM   #18
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Just my opinion but I still think the 2nd LSS1 for side image on the front is overkill. With the units linked you will be able to view images from the rear transducer at the bow, and then switch to the "regular" transducer on the troller for downscan. Again, just my opinion, and a savings of $500.
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Old 05-23-12, 06:55 AM   #19
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Agree with Lowrider. You don't need that second LSS1, I also don't think you need Two LGC Antennas. You need one Antenna for the Rear and that should do it.
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Old 05-23-12, 06:39 PM   #20
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The LGC-4000 external antenna is another option, and if you went this route you would need to get one for each unit, plus you would need to install the NMEA 2000 network.


Todd said I needed one for each unit?.. Here's my reason I want side scan from the front.. 1. Because your fishing on the front .. I don't want to be looking at side scan 20 feet behind me...
2. Because I can turn my trolling motor 360 degrees I can now sidescan behind me to each side and in front of me.... let's say there's a little underwater tree your looking for... I can find it much more efficiently if I can look each direction under the water and its all about efficiency in tournament fishing...
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Old 05-23-12, 09:07 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonefishin3 View Post
The LGC-4000 external antenna is another option, and if you went this route you would need to get one for each unit, plus you would need to install the NMEA 2000 network.


Todd said I needed one for each unit?.. Here's my reason I want side scan from the front.. 1. Because your fishing on the front .. I don't want to be looking at side scan 20 feet behind me...
2. Because I can turn my trolling motor 360 degrees I can now sidescan behind me to each side and in front of me.... let's say there's a little underwater tree your looking for... I can find it much more efficiently if I can look each direction under the water and its all about efficiency in tournament fishing...
Looking at your list above, you don't need the "thru-hull" LSS ducers, assuming this equipment is going on a bass boat. Understand these aren't "shoot-thru." You would have to drill a hole thru the hull to use these. The standard, transom-mount ducer that comes with the LSS-1 is what you want for both the transom and the trolling motor.

As mentioned by others, the second LSS would be optional. Some get it and some don't. I only run one LSS and use it when idling/searching for places to fish. I like to fish at the bow with 2D sonar. Others wouldn't do without the second LSS up front.

I do have a 4000 antenna for both units, and have each mounted directly over the transducers to minimize position error when saving wpts. As I state above, these are also optional as the internal antennas work well. I do like the 5X/sec update rate the 4000s provide and do recommend two of these if you decide to run external antennas. Keep in mind the 4000s are NMEA 2000 devices so you would also have to purchase and install a NMEA 2000 network. I provided a link in a previous post that explains NMEA.
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Old 06-03-12, 02:34 PM   #22
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So when im looking at an HDS-10 Gen2 Insight LSS Bundle.. what exactly comes in the bundle? it comes with the sidescan unit but is it sidescan HD? am i still going to have to order my

Trolling Motor Bracket for
LSS-1 Imaging or
83/200 kHz Transducer
or
Skimmer® | In-Hull | Thru-Hull
83/200 kHz Transducer
seperately? or does it come in the bundle?
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Old 06-06-12, 09:34 AM   #23
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Yes, the LSS in the bundle is HD. All new orders for LSS will only be HD. The HDS-10, when ordered in the bundle, comes with the 83/200 skimmer ducer. You will need to purchase a TM bracket for the LSS ducer separately.
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Old 06-06-12, 07:39 PM   #24
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IMO, RAM mounts are the only way to go.
My opinion - if you mount that 10" unit on a RAM, use a swing arm mount, NOT the 2" ball. I have a 10" Humminbird mounted on a 2" RAM ball with a 3" arm and that sum***** WILL NOT stay tight in anything but dead calm water. I've had to stop many times and tighten it up as the unit has dropped until it was resting on the console. It's gotten to the point everytime I stop I tighten it up, a REAL pain in the butt. I've used a swing arm on a previous boat and that thing will not move after you get it set. At $100+ that 2" RAM may be ok for the 8" & 9" units but is not well suited for a heavy unit like those 10"ers.
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Old 06-19-12, 07:46 PM   #25
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So, why do you feel you need two structure scan units? When networked, either head unit can access the structure scan so it is not needed to provide that data at each station. Also, consider that structure scan provides imaging to the side so when you rotate you trolling motor you will in essence be panning the sonar from side to side. You'll only see what is to the side when the motor is pointed directly ahead. That does not seem like it would be desirable to me. How long is your boat? Even with a 22 footer I would to see the distance as a disadvantage. And I'd guess I'd ask the same question about the GPS antenna. Do you knw for certain that there is some deficiency of the units' internal antenna that you need to over come? If not why purchase it? I've also got doubts that you'll need to purchase any additional transducers but it looks like you've spec'd at least a couple. So, again what is the specific need you need to address that will not be met with what will come in the boxes with the units and structure scan. It kinda sounds like you've taken a "I'll have one of everything" approach instead of determining what you want to accomplish and then making your choices based on that.
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