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Old 03-18-09, 03:12 PM   #26
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Lead has been banned for all freshwater fishing in the UK for many years now.

The ban makes no difference to your fishing/catching except all the substitutes always seem to cost a tad more.
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Old 03-18-09, 03:18 PM   #27
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i was waiting to see what he could do that would have me really aginst most of his actions...

change we need...not this kind
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Old 03-18-09, 03:34 PM   #28
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I wouldn't mind the banning of lead if they just did it in a different way. They should do this by having a law that but a certain year, like 2015 or something, that all bait and tackle making companies should switch over to lead free tackle and all of the people that already have stuff with lead in it can keep their tackle.
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Old 03-18-09, 03:35 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassinBrits View Post
Lead has been banned for all freshwater fishing in the UK for many years now.

The ban makes no difference to your fishing/catching except all the substitutes always seem to cost a tad more.
Hey Jack, while I understand what you are saying - the cost is enough to as other people said potentially put some businesses out of business. Thats not good. Its not that it just hurts fishermen, it hurts everyone. And for what? A little less lead in the environment? Its a naturally occurring element. In fact I believe we have trace amounts in our own bodies.

I'm not really losing sleep over the lead thing, but its just one more example of how meddlesome our government has become. We fought a war with your country, 2 wars actually, to be free of such meddlesome government. We are not children who need the protection of a sovereign leader whether it is called King George, Obama or the UN. We should be free to govern ourselves without having to petition a national oligarchy. Our system has broken down because law is no longer observed. The people and the states are subservient to the federal government in Washington.

PS, sorry that our stupid president only gave yall some DVDs during the Prime Minister's visit. It was highly disrespectful on the part of the White House.
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Old 03-18-09, 03:41 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by jig fisherman View Post
I wouldn't mind the banning of lead if they just did it in a different way. They should do this by having a law that but a certain year, like 2015 or something, that all bait and tackle making companies should switch over to lead free tackle and all of the people that already have stuff with lead in it can keep their tackle.
I can agree! Not just making anglers switch, but also making companies switch, and also doing this at a later date would also be nice, letter anglers, get new stuff with out a big hubba bubba! But like Stew said, once President Barack Obama gets his Directer in, it can all change! So it's still not a 100% yet!
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Old 03-18-09, 03:50 PM   #31
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It seems like some of you have not read any of anything stew has posted... why are some still blaming Obama for this??

I'm not wanting, or meaning to attack any one, just just don't see your reasoning?
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Old 03-18-09, 03:55 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Bassboss View Post
It seems like some of you have not read any of anything stew has posted... why are some still blaming Obama for this??

I'm not wanting, or meaning to attack any one, just just don't see your reasoning?
Logic has no place in politics.!!
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Old 03-18-09, 04:00 PM   #33
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Even though the director is a hold over from the previous adminstration, the boss is still responsible for the actions of an employee. If a company changes ownership, the employees of the previous owner become the new owner's employees. The director is an employee and the President is the boss. I don't see that this is different.
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Old 03-18-09, 04:11 PM   #34
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Logic has no place in politics.!!
Doc,

That is the best statement in this entire thread!!!!!!!
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Old 03-18-09, 04:13 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everettvet View Post
Doc,

That is the best statement in this entire thread!!!!!!!

same here......
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Old 03-18-09, 04:14 PM   #36
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Logic has no place in politics.!!
I can agree!
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Old 03-18-09, 04:19 PM   #37
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I must have glanced over what stew posted, didnt mean to ignore him.

Eventually we are going to have to use our common sense. In recent years, it has become popular to say stuff like "if I can save just 1 life by doing this, its worth it."

But there is a threshold where saving a life isnt worth it. Thats not a popular political principle, but there would be no living if we were to eliminate every action by man that could indirectly result in the death of another.

Ask yourself, do you really think spinnerbaits and sinkers are killing our children? Paint, pencils and the like are no brainers. But lead sinkers in a lake with billions of gallons?
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Old 03-18-09, 04:30 PM   #38
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WTL has a point...we can not stop eveything that can cause death to someone if we did then....There would be no....

driving,
obviously guns,
alchohol,
salt, any fod with fat in it,
nothing sharp (which includes knifes, scissors, forks, pens, pencils, etc.),
there would be no coming into contact with people if you are sick or even dirty,
there would be no caffene drinks only water,
but the plants the purify water are dangerous, so no bottle water
there would be no electricity to run power to your house which pumps water to you,
there would be no fire allowed because it can burn down things...
Heck no baths becaue someone could drown....

Some of you may look at me and say I am taking it too far, and maybe I am, but I am simply showing you how stupid things can get if you start to take away anything that can hurt another person.
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Old 03-18-09, 04:32 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew View Post
Thanks, CMorg.

BTW, there are a great many tackle companies that produce lead-free, tournament quality, products.

This is because many State Parks have been 100% lead-free zones for many years.

Why?

Because lead is some really nasty stuff, the levels of which have been accumulating at an alarming rate in many environments.

The lead seeps into ground water and travels 1000s of miles away, where we drink it. It is taken into fish, which we eat.

Children and pregnant mothers are especially vulnerable to lead's ill-effects. Lead poisoning is terrible, just terrible. It causes brain and neurological damage, often permanent. If you've ever known a lead-poisoned child, it is heart-breaking.

http://www.brainandspinalcord.org/bl...08/06/lead.jpg

Also see http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/lead-poisoning/FL00068 for an overview.

Lead-poisoning is a documented scientific occurrence, not just some theory.

As for lead-free tackle, just Google the term. There are scores of companies and high quality products. Here are a few:

http://www.kitterytradingpost.com/pr...4/prodid/17072

http://www.rockyledge.com/

http://www.luresandjigs.com/index.ph...=cart&sku=LFSC (look along the left in the middle)

http://store.ebait.com/merchant2/mer...egory_Code=fox

Me?

Switching to using lead-free tackle in lead-free zones is no big deal. It's moral to do so.

I rarely ever get involved in political discussions but please for the love of all that is good, DO NOT BELIEVE THIS GUY!!!! Is lead poisonous? Absolutely. Are sinkers/hooks/spinnerbaits/jigs adding enough lead into our waters to make even a slight difference? Absolutely not.

Show me a child who was poisoned because of lead in water and I will show you a kid who lived in a very old house with terrible lead pipes and a county/city water system that still uses lead pipes (which many major cities still do). If none of those are the case (and 99.99% of lead cases have nothing to do with water), it is the result of a poorly-run renovation project on walls with lead-based paint. The funny thing is that the potable water we get in our faucets comes from treatment plants where much lead is removed; however, the pipes that deliver the water to our houses are usually full of lead since cities in this country were built hundreds of years ago when the health effects of lead were not a concern for the average citizen. These pipes account for 99.9999999 percent of any lead in our water, your split shot that broke off on a stump is a fart in a hurricane.

I am a Property Manager in Washington, DC and I have my Lead Certification so I am definitely qualified to discuss this. Deteriorating lead based paint can cause developmental problems in young children but usually only when lead dust is inhaled after it is disturbed (like in a renovation) or if the child is stupid enough (or ignored enough) to eat large quantities of paint chips.

Since lead paint was banned in 1979 in the US, and lead-based paint disclosure and maintenance requirements are very extensive for contractors and property managers; lead poisoning has essentially disappeared in this country (except in areas of extreme poverty where property owners/residents do not have the means to remediate the situation).

This proposed measure is nothing more than a political stunt which looks good to the ignorant general public but hurts anglers like us where it counts: our wallets.
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Old 03-18-09, 04:33 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WTL View Post
Ask yourself, do you really think spinnerbaits and sinkers are killing our children? Paint, pencils and the like are no brainers. But lead sinkers in a lake with billions of gallons?
WTL,

I agree with you! Seems to me that mercury and PCBs are more of a concern for the human population than what lead is for anyone or anything. There is a section in the Kentucky State Fishing guide under general information telling where you can't eat the fish and how many meals per month is safe. I have never seen a sign posted that mentions lead posioning in a body of water. Maybe I am not looking in the correct areas.
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Old 03-18-09, 04:35 PM   #41
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Another major source of lead poisoning was leaded fuel which has not been made in decades. Many poorly maintained underground storage tanks at gas stations caused significant amounts of lead and other toxins to seep into well water which caused problems; however, underground storage tanks are now one of the most regulated things in this country. While chemicals are still found in much groundwater it is nowhere near as bad as 30 years ago.
One bad storage tank at an abandoned gas station will commit infinitely more lead to the water than lead tackle ever could.
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Old 03-18-09, 04:39 PM   #42
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Everett, I remember as a kid when I would use to freak out cause I got stabbed by a pencil. Oh no, the lead is gonna kill me! And it was graphite.

Heavy metals are serious, if you eat them or work with them for your life. Take mercury. They used to use it in the process of leafing ornate gold frames for many hundreds of years. Frame builders kept getting sick cause of all the mercury, but it took many years - and mercury you can absorb through the skin!

Its just like the AIG mess. Lots of grandstanding. Hey look at what I am doing! I, your political representative, have saved your life from a; global warming b; terrorists c;lead fishing sinkers d;the filthy rich who would eat your children if we didnt bail them out - and all these other things which probably werent gonna kill you anyways. Politics 101; Create a fictional crisis then address it with token measures and take the credit.

How many of you have eaten doves or pheasants or other upland game that was shot full of lead?
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Old 03-18-09, 04:46 PM   #43
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Hey guys, I think we should ban skiing. After all, you could become a vegetable from falling over on the bunny slope and having a brain hemorrhage. Not to make light of a sad current event, just illustrating the point because I like overkill.
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Old 03-18-09, 04:48 PM   #44
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WTL, I agree. Some politicians want to be seen as enviroment friendly and that can be a good thing if they are sincere about it, but use some common sense in the process. I haven't heard anything that the new adminstration is doing to reduce the amount of mercury and pcbs in the water. It would be nice to take a kid fishing, let him eat what he caught and not worry about the toxins that are a problem. Lead does not fall in that discussion.
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Old 03-18-09, 05:29 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcBorger View Post
DO NOT BELIEVE THIS GUY!!!! Is lead poisonous? Absolutely. Are sinkers/hooks/spinnerbaits/jigs adding enough lead into our waters to make even a slight difference? Absolutely not.

I am a Property Manager in Washington, DC and I have my Lead Certification so I am definitely qualified to discuss this. lead poisoning has essentially disappeared in this country (except in areas of extreme poverty where property owners/residents do not have the means to remediate the situation).

This proposed measure is nothing more than a political stunt which looks good to the ignorant general public but hurts anglers like us where it counts: our wallets.
I don't want to interrupt your grandstanding here too much, but you might want to have a look at the science and the facts before going on further.

Let's keep it real simple, down to pictures.

Here's what they culled out of part of Henry Horton State Park recently:
Attached Images
  
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Old 03-18-09, 05:34 PM   #46
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Yes, lets not let facts get in the way.

Those pics are from a skeet range that has been in service since the 60s.

http://state.tn.us/environment/parks...df/leadout.pdf
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Old 03-18-09, 06:02 PM   #47
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Here is a link to a water quality survey for the Duck river. FYI, the Duck river runs through Henry Horton State Park. I know. I've fished there, caught a couple nice little bass. Its a scenic river. Theres a rock ledge there you can walk along, I remember it had what looked to be petrified wood embedded in the rock but it could have been something else. Interesting place none the less. Spots, smallmouth and largemouth.

http://www.tntech.edu/WRC/DuckRiverM...tilQualRep.pdf

Lead (ppb) No samples exceeded
action limit AL
= 15.0 11.0 1.1 – 11.0 0 Corrosion of household plumbing, erosion


If I read that correctly according to the EPA, even with that shooting range right there (and a range would deposit much more lead than fishing sinkers) the lead in the river right there was within an acceptable range.
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Old 03-18-09, 06:06 PM   #48
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Banning lead is no new issue to us folks that fish the Ohio River, they have been finding lead in the mud for years. along with all the other junk ppl throw in.
I think good ol Yankee enginuity will prevail and if there is a ban on lead some other materials can be used that wont be as costly as tungsten or brass...we sure dont flinch when we spend fifteen bucks on a LC Pointer, whats a few bucks more for weights? In the long run it will help the enviroment .
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Old 03-18-09, 06:06 PM   #49
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Quote:
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Yes, lets not let facts get in the way.

Those pics are from a skeet range that has been in service since the 60s.

http://state.tn.us/environment/parks...df/leadout.pdf

WTL, That was funny. This has turned out to be a heck of a debate I started. Not what I thought it would be, but it has been interesting.
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Old 03-18-09, 07:53 PM   #50
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Yes, lets not let facts get in the way.

Those pics are from a skeet range that has been in service since the 60s.

http://state.tn.us/environment/parks...df/leadout.pdf

Thank you very much!

Grandstanding I was not, just pointing out reality.

Even if the lead tackle caused a significant increase in the amount of lead in our potable water (which it does not), it would not make a significant impact at the faucet as long as our distribution pipes continue to contain lead (which the vast majority do). The problem will remain but isn't a real problem anyway since the levels are within the acceptable limits in the vast majority of areas.
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