Frog reel idea.

[keithdog]

I currently have a Garcia Revo S that I use as my main spinnerbait reel. I received a BPS Pro Qualifier for Christmas, so here is my plan, but was wanting your opinions first. I don't really have a frog specific rod/reel combo and want to put together one. I've been using my heavy pitchin outfit for froggin so far. I'm thinking about picking up a 7'3" heavy/extra fast rod for froggin and taking my Revo S off my spinnerbait rod and using it for my froggin reel with 50# braid. My new Pro Qualifier would become my spinnerbait reel. Does that sound "doable" to you guys? With the Revo having a 22 pound drag rating I figured that would make a pretty decent frog reel.

[BigBassin144]

I like a 7:1 gear ratio for frogging, but a 6:1 will work. My STX pulls double duty (used to be triple before I got a jig rod) as a pitching/frog reel on a 7' H. It is the high speed version, and it works good. I don't see why the Revo S wouldn't work.

On a side note, what rod are you thinking of getting for frogging?

BB

[MIbasser]

Keith, it will work just fine.... Trust me. It's the reel that I use. I have mine on a 7' MH Bionic Blade w/50lb PowerPro and will put the frog in the worst stuff and it comes out just fine. Now would I like the 7'3" MH Powel frog rod and an E7 - YES, but my budget is for the current rod/reel combo. Oh, I use it for both hollowed bodies and buzz frogs.

[nofearengineer]

Keith, that sounds like a good plan to me.

Originally Posted by BigBassin144

On a side note, what rod are you thinking of getting for frogging?BB

No, he's not getting a Dobyn's!

[Jrob78]

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

Keith, that sounds like a good plan to me.



No, he's not getting a Dobyn's!

hahahaha

[keithdog]

Originally Posted by BigBassin144

On a side note, what rod are you thinking of getting for frogging?

BB

Well, I don't believe it necessary to buy an expensive sensitive rod for frog fishing. To me it's about power and speed. Getting that bass hooked and outta trouble. There is the BPS Extreem rod in 7'3" XH-XF that I've looked at and it would do the trick. But I'm looking at the Garcia Vendettta available in 7'3" H-XF that I'm interrested in. I don't know a lot about the Vendettas other than they are supposed to match the Revos perfectly. Sorry it took so long to answer. Was watching the Irish kick Miamis a**.

[BigBassin144]

No problem Keith. The Vendetta is a great rod for the price, at least the 7'6" MH one I have is. I think the 7'3" heavy would be a good rod for it.

And how Bryce knew I was thinking about a Dobyns 735, I'm not sure. Oh well

BB

[pro reel]

That will work just fine, it's a strong reel that will horse them out with no trouble. If you feel that the 6:4.1 is a little slow for your frogging style, you can put the 7:1.1 gears from a first generation Revo SX in the S

[keithdog]

Originally Posted by pro reel

That will work just fine, it's a strong reel that will horse them out with no trouble. If you feel that the 6:4.1 is a little slow for your frogging style, you can put the 7:1.1 gears from a first generation Revo SX in the S

I'll try my 6.4:1 as is first. I didn't know the gears were interchangable. I'm affraid if I tried to do that it would never work again, hahaha. So far the 6.4:1 reel I've used in the past for froggin has worked fine.

[tim4081]

Originally Posted by keithdog

Well, I don't believe it necessary to buy an expensive sensitive rod for frog fishing. To me it's about power and speed. Getting that bass hooked and outta trouble. There is the BPS Extreem rod in 7'3" XH-XF that I've looked at and it would do the trick. But I'm looking at the Garcia Vendettta available in 7'3" H-XF that I'm interrested in. I don't know a lot about the Vendettas other than they are supposed to match the Revos perfectly. Sorry it took so long to answer. Was watching the Irish kick Miamis a**.

Keith, I'm planning on adding a frog rod myself for 2011. Considering the Vendetta and about a dozen others as well. BPS also has the Carbonlite available in a 7' Heavy XF ...now with your choice of standard or micro guides...might be something to consider when they go on sale.

[Bubba_Bruiser]

I just got a RX7 7'10" H-F blank in the mail and it is a ton-o-meat stick. I plan on using it for my frog stick this year if I can get it together. I would like to pair it up with a Curado E7.

Right now though I am using a Daiwa 8' H-F Salmon rod with a Curado CU-200.

[pig n jig]

Whatever you got will work.I use an old Daiwa 253 CVZ millionaire reel with 50 lb power pro on an old Quantum tour edition 7'6" Heavy flippin stick.It's what I got laying around to use.Maybe you need to buy more stuff ?

[bamabassman]

Remember keith.........may. Bringing some rods and reels.

[mrmuskie5]

7'6" vendetta and a 1st gen president with 50# stealth gets er done for me. oh yeah the coppers frog is Sweeeeet!

[Garry2rs]

I can't help thinking that we're getting way too concerned with tweaking every piece of tackle for the smallest variable.

There's not much practical difference in how much line any two given reels move. It averages about 26 inches per-crank. Slow reels moving 24" and fast reels up around 29 inches.

That means that after 5 cranks the slow guy has moved 10 feet of line and the very fastest has moved two feet more...However if the slow guy found it easier to crank, and turned the handle 6 times, he caught up!

In the past, our round reels had bigger spools, so lower gears were used.

Low profile reels have to have smaller diameter spools. To move the same length of line per-crank, reel builders had to increase the number of spool revolutions...So they installed higher speed gears.

If you have a heavy bait or one that blocks a lot of water, it's easier to crank with lower gears. Just like biking up a hill in a lower gear instead of in high.

What reel you use with a frog rod will have almost no effect on the outcome of a given cast.

The bait isn't heavy, and it doesn't block a lot of water so gear ratio is unimportant.

If you want to argue that a 7:1 reel will get the lure back faster, or pick up slack quicker, I say so what!

Most top water guys will tell you that more bites are missed because the angler "didn't wait to feel the weight" than for any other reason.
Garry2R's

[Tavery5]

Garry I think your arguement has some merit to it. We can spend allot of time trying to determine which reel or rod is best suited to a particular technique. If you have rods and reels in hand and plan on using them instead of making a new purchase so be it, use what ya got. No doubt they will all get it done. On the other hand if you were looking into purchasing a new rod or reel would it not make sense to understand the differences and purchase the best tool for the job?
Your numbers are probably correct if you average the vast number or reels on the market. However if you look into specific brands of reels the difference is much greater than the average. The new Curado E series reels come in two speeds, 5.01 and 7.01, the slower pulls 21 IPT and the faster 30 IPT, which is a 9 IPT difference. The revo series of reels have even a greater difference, the slower winch reel at 5.4:1 has an IPT of just 20.6 IPT while the 7.0:1 reels haul in 31 IPT a differnce of 10.6 IPT.
If you were purchasing a new reel to frog fish with, would these numbers make a difference to you? They would to many of us.
I guess what I am trying to say is this, no one is trying to tell another person that you cannot catch fish or that a certain rod or reel will not work for a specific technique. What the conversations are about are helping each other understand the differences in the tools our hobby and understanding why one may be better suited than the other.

You can use pliers, a crescent wrench, a socket wrench, an open end wrench, a boxend wrench, or a blow torch to remove a nut from a bolt, but one of these tools is always better in a given situation.

[Garry2rs]

There have always been "winches" that were designed for the largest, deepest running baits, but that's not what we are talking about.

In the first post keithdog talked about using a 6.4X1 reel VS a 7.1X1 reel on his new frog rod.

If you think about this, there is no practical difference!

As I pointed out we are talking a few inches per crank, and one extra crank eliminates the difference between the fastest and the slowest average reel. So I repeat...There is nothing to choose in this scenario.

Even the 22 pound drag on the Revo is a mute point. If keithdog uses the 50 pound braid, that he talked about in the same post, he can put his thumb down and freeze the spool on either reel. Fifty pound braid will let him pull as hard as he wants.
Garry2R's

[Tavery5]

I agree with everything you just said. I would only make this one point, if Keithdog were going out to purchase a new reel specifically for frog fishing, the 7.1 reel would still be the better choice. While the difference is very negligible it does exist.

[BigBassin144]

Originally Posted by Garry2rs

There have always been "winches" that were designed for the largest, deepest running baits, but that's not what we are talking about.

In the first post keithdog talked about using a 6.4X1 reel VS a 7.1X1 reel on his new frog rod.

If you think about this, there is no practical difference!

There is a difference. I'll take two reels I know the specs on fairly well as an example. The Daiwa Zillion in 6.3:1 and 7.1:1. The first has a retrieve of 28 IPT while the latter has a little over 32 IPT.

So after ten cranks of each reel, the 6:1 reel is over 40" behind the 7:1. It would take two turns of the handle to make that up. If it takes someone 20 turns of the handle to retrieve their bait with the 7:1, it would require 23 with the 6.1. So after a day of making hundreds of casts at a 3 extra turns per cast, you're looking at AT LEAST a few hundred extra handle turns.

BB

[pig n jig]

I don't know about where Keith fishes his frogs but there are 2 different situations that work for me here in the finger lakes area.The first being in the slop.This is where your reel difference might play a difference.I don't like going in after them so I horse them up and ski them across the slop to the boat if I am able.The second is to swim frogs in open water.Don't ask me why it works because I haven't been able to figure that out yet. I only used the Zoom horny toads in the open water until Zooker told me about the sizmic jr toads.I have fished both now for the last couple of years with good results.

[keithdog]

I'll fish frogs in several situations. Most in heavy slop and lilly pads. But I've been known to toss them up on the bank and craw/hop them into the water. I'll also work them around piers and laydowns. I have much better luck in the slop and pads but working a swimming frog in open water can work very well at times. My Revo S has a 6.4:1 ratio which is a good all around ratio for most situations. You can burn a lure in pretty well with that ratio or slow it down to a crawl if needed. Not being an expert in reel construction, my main concern was whether or not the Revo S had a strong enough frame and guts for a froggin reel. I didn't know if it had the same frame construction as the SX and STX. I assumed it did but wasn't sure.

[keithdog]

OK, I was at BPS today and they have two rods that got me thinking. I'm still leaning towards the Garcia Vendetta 7'3" H-XF for a froggin rod. But BPS now has a Nitro rod in
7' XH-XF for $89 and a Jonney Morris Signiture series rod in 7'2" XH-XF for $119.99. Both those rods woould probably make a good froggin rod, but I just don't know. They might be a little stiff for castin frog baits. Having never used a rod with those specs before I don't know. It seems odd the Nitro line is already being fased out in just a few years after being introduced. But I've never heard any complaints about them.

[bassinbob]

Keith, I use a St Croix Premier heavy for hollow body frogs and a few different mh rods for Horny Toad type baits. IMO an XH might be a little overkill unless you have some really bad surface clutter. I like the St Croix for the hollow body because it lets me guide the frogs easier around pads and other cover. The mh because of the same reason, manuverability.

[BigBassin144]

I think the XF might be a little overkill for the cover we have around here (I'm assuming you're cover is similar to what I fish).

I use a Loomis MBR844C (7' H F) for frog fishing (usually my pitching rod) since I don't frog fish much and don't need a dedicated rod. If I've still got braid on my 7'6" MH Vendetta come summer, I'm going to give it a try too.

BB

[Garry2rs]

If you like any of these rods and it is rated for the weight of your bait, buy it. They will all do the job.

For most of my Bass fishing I like to use G.Loomis MBR rods just like our college BigBassin144. They will throw most bass baits including both soft and solid frogs, very well.

These rods are rated as Fast. The MBR783, 784 are six foot six inch rods in MH and H weight, while the 843 and 844 are the same rods in a 7 foot length.

Common wisdom says that longer rods cast farther, but in the slop, extra distance might not count for much.

Pro Reel could tell you the details about the differences between your two reels, but I'm certain that either body casting is more than strong enough.