Spinning Reel Spools

[BigBassin144]

Looking at spinning reels recently, I've noticed there are two main types of spool designes. The traditional spool, like on Daiwa, Shimano, and Pflueger reels. And then there are the ones more flat and wide ones like on the BPS Johnny Morris, and the new Pflueger Arbor reels.

So, what's the difference between these two performance wise, and which one do you prefer?

BB

[Bender]

I bought one of the Johnny Morris reels this year with the wide spools for drop shotting, made by US Reels. In theory it should have helped with fluoro but didn't really seem to make much difference, I never had too much trouble. I might try another one, but get the US Reel version. Since I never cast for distance with it I can't comment if it casts better.

[DaveW731]

Anyone else remember what spools looked like 30 years ago? Just after the introduction of the skirted spool? VERY much like these "new" spools. I remember the change to narrower, longer spools was based on the idea that the narrower wrap and more diagional lay of the line added to casting distance, by creating a tighter spiral coming off of the reel that did not slap the guides as hard as the bigger spirals coming off of the "old fashioned" wider spools.
Maybe I am showing my age, but I think it is all a crock of horse pucky.

[nofearengineer]

Man, oh man. I remember my awesome Garcia Mitchell 300. It had the pop-in spool, with the "skirt" on the bail.

From an Engineer's viewpoint, I can't see any advantages to the narrow spool design. The wide spool design will maintain a more consistent retrieve ratio, larger line loops (and thus less line memory problems), and also allow more internal space for better drag components.

In addition, I would also assume that the single highest friction producer during a cast is the front lip of the spool, not the first rod guide. By way of a wider spool, you have more line per loop, and thus less line "revolutions" coming off of the spool, resulting in less angular velocity against the spool lip, and less friction.

Since the bail arm doesn't have to move as far forward and backwards, there should also be less variation in retrieve resistance on crankbaits and other heavier type loads.

Enough minutiae...get the wide one.

[DaveW731]

Thanks for the educated point of view, my Indiana friend! I am very happy to defer to greater knowledge, but just for the fun of it, a few observations/questions, focusing on the issue of casting distance:

I am not sure how much the line hits the front lip of the spool, but I am sure it hits the guide on the pole, so I may question which is the greater source of friction.
Regarding line memory, would fewer but larger (therefore higher friction) loops cause less resistance than a greater number of smaller (lower friction) loops on a given cast?

To the other points:
Drag components- seems to make sense that more area for bigger surface would make a difference.
Bail arm movement- would not the greater diameter of the wide spool mean that the bail arm would be moving as far as it would on a longer, narrower spool, just in a different direction?

Like I said, these are "just for fun" questions. IMO, the best way to determine if there is a difference is side by side comparison.
BTW: a big "true that" about the Garcia/Mitchell 300: it was one sweet reel!

[nofearengineer]

Dave, I will attempt to clarify what I posted earlier.

About the larger loops causing more friction at the first rod guide:

Imagine two springs, one narrow, long one, and another wide, short one. Let's assume the total wire length would be the same if the springs were pulled completely straight. At some shorter distance, let's say the distance from the reel to the first rod guide , they will both look like partially stretched out springs. Consider this a snap shot of how the fishing line will look during a cast. Since the wider spool has obviously wider loops, there will be fewer loops than with the narrow spool. Remember, same amount of line, just different geometry. The angle of the line around the spiral will be more in line with the rod (like thread pitch on a bolt) than with the narrow loops. This means they should pass through the rod guide with less impact and resultant friction. There may be some variables I'm not considering, but I think I've hit on the primary one.

About the bail arm:

I wasn't referring to the bail arms round-and-round motion. I was referring to the oscillation back and forwards caused by the worm gear. The thing that causes the levelwind effect on the spool. The less this motion is, the less variation is causes in line tension. Picture yourself being pulled along by a rope. At the other end, I am pulling the rope hand by hand at a constant rate. However, I am walking forward a few steps, then walking backwards a few steps, over and over. On the steps I walk forward, the force on the rope will be less, and you will actually be pulled less distance. On the steps I take backwards, there will be more force on the rope, because I will actually be pulling you farther. It works the same for your reel. When the bail roller is directly over either the top or the bottom of the spool, the force will be at its minimum; in the center of the spool, it's at the maximum. It doesn't vary by a tremendous amount, but I'm sure it's measurable.

[BigBassin144]

Thanks for info guys. I figured the best way would be a side by side.

I could get a BPS Johnny Morris signature spinning reel for 60 bucks, and I already have a couple of the taller, narrower spooled spinning reels.

One thing I'd like to know is if the wider spools really are so much better, why doesn't every brand make one?

BB

[Raul]

Originally Posted by BigBassin144

Thanks for info guys. I figured the best way would be a side by side.

I could get a BPS Johnny Morris signature spinning reel for 60 bucks, and I already have a couple of the taller, narrower spooled spinning reels.

One thing I'd like to know is if the wider spools really are so much better, why doesn't every brand make one?

BB

Why not ? because the other manufacturers are following the opposite school of thought, a longer and narrower spool ( Aero design ) that works as well as the low flat spool.

[DaveW731]

Thanks for the spring analogy, you have changed my understanding of the physics involved. It seems like you are saying that not only are there fewer loops, those fewer loops also cause less friction than the smaller ones. Bigger spool therefore = longer casts, at least theoretically.
Practically, I wonder how much difference: take a wide spool reel and a narrow spool, both rated for the same weight line. Put them on identical rods, toss identical baits. After 100 casts with both, would there be a significant difference in total distance?
BB144, if you care to conduct such a test, plz post results

[nofearengineer]

Originally Posted by DaveW731

Thanks for the spring analogy, you have changed my understanding of the physics involved. It seems like you are saying that not only are there fewer loops, those fewer loops also cause less friction than the smaller ones. Bigger spool therefore = longer casts, at least theoretically.
Practically, I wonder how much difference: take a wide spool reel and a narrow spool, both rated for the same weight line. Put them on identical rods, toss identical baits. After 100 casts with both, would there be a significant difference in total distance?
BB144, if you care to conduct such a test, plz post results

That's a great idea, since all of my theorizing, while based on solid principles, could all be blown out of the water by something not accounted for.

As to why all manufacturers don't all make the same style. I would argue that most fishermen are just as fashion conscious and science ignorant as their wives. (from the male point of view) Bottom line, the eye's lust for bling fools what brains we have a lot of times, and we buy what they want us to. We like variety...it gives us something to argue over, as if we know what hte heck we're talking about. If that weren't true, there would be one model of truck, one model of van, one model of sub-compact...you get the drift. No Mercury vs. Evinrude debates, NASCAR would go out of business (no more totally pointless Ford vs. Chevy squabbles), no more timeless "tastes great / less filling" debate.

[Raul]

Originally Posted by DaveW731

Thanks for the spring analogy, you have changed my understanding of the physics involved. It seems like you are saying that not only are there fewer loops, those fewer loops also cause less friction than the smaller ones. Bigger spool therefore = longer casts, at least theoretically.
Practically, I wonder how much difference: take a wide spool reel and a narrow spool, both rated for the same weight line. Put them on identical rods, toss identical baits. After 100 casts with both, would there be a significant difference in total distance?
BB144, if you care to conduct such a test, plz post results

To perform a test like that you would have to do it indoors so there´s no variation in the environmental parameters, also, hard for a human to repeat the same casting motion without even the slightest variation to make a valid test.

[MississippiBoy]

But a sample size of 100 casts with each reel should give you a good average that you might could get some good info from.

[BigBassin144]

Originally Posted by MississippiBoy

But a sample size of 100 casts with each reel should give you a good average that you might could get some good info from.

That's what I was thinking. It'd have to be on the same rod with the same line, and comparable size reels. The same brand reel would be even better, but I don't if anyone besides Pfluger makes both kinds. And if I did go with Pflueger, I don't know how long before the new Arbor spinning reel comes out.

BB