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Old 09-26-12, 02:46 PM   #1
Crankbait
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Default Why so Heavy

I was reading the article from Keithdog about new strategies for 2013 and it got me thinking about something. I think I am the only angler casting with 6 and 10lb braid. I even flip with 15 and 20lb braid. I just fell in love with braid….I know it has its drawbacks but I have gotten so in sync with it! I can throw 6lb a mile and flipping and pitchin is smooth with 15 and 20lb. now I get it if you’re in heavy vegetation than a heavier line is going to help you cut through the veggies.
I come to a couple of conclusions…..Fishing for reds has taught me some things. I used to worry about the bass seeing my braid even though it is almost as thin as thread. Catching reds has taught me to tie a leader without fear of the knot breaking. I have caught 10 and 15lb reds on 10 and 15lb braid with around 20lb seaguar red label leader material. Also I was told that 10 and 15lb braid is terrible with wind knots…..some truth to this. I was using reel magic with good results. But this year I went to Emerald isle, NC to fish reds. Change up with the gear I went with 10 and 15lb braid but switched to Pflueger arbor reels with the wide spool…..love em….not as smooth as some of the top end Pfluegers and Shimanos but the cast was a noticeable difference!
But I question having to use such heavy line just to use heavy line. I understand that cover and structure can play a part because of abrasion and nicks and different test line also sinks and reacts differently on some bait. Here’s something else to consider. If you’re throwing 20lb line but your reel only gives you 12lbs of drag. So if you grab a 30 red whether you have 15lb test or 25lb test you’re still only going to get the amount of drag your reel is rated for. Again the conditions play a factor but in water that has little cover ……why so heavy??
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Old 09-26-12, 02:57 PM   #2
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I didn't get it either, but he gave a reply as to his reasons. So if it works for him, no skin of my nose. I prefer to go as light as conditions permit, for me that's usually 10 -12# copoly on most baitcasters and 20# braid on my spinning reels because lighter gives me fits with the mentioned wind knots and loops around the rod tip. I use Pflueger reels almost exclusively and I've given thought to those arbor spools but may actually try one just due to your comment, although I really like the Supremes I'm currently using. Thanks.
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Old 09-26-12, 03:26 PM   #3
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My viewpoint on line, is that each type of line has its place. I kind of think of it as a tool, you have different tools for different jobs, same goes with fishing lines. I think you become a better fisherman, if you learn the attributes of each type, when its beneficial to use one line over another.
I had some 20 lb copoly line as backing on a reel once, and when I got down close to the backing, there was enough memory in it to cause the line in front of it to jump off my spool. I couldn't imagine using it as my main line.
But I'm sure there is a place for it, just not for me, at least yet.
I'd much rather use 20 or 30 lb braid, if I needed a line with that type of strength. Down side to braid to me is, if you are fishing clear rocky water. Braid is highly visible, and rocks seem to cut it up pretty bad.
If fishing deep cranks, I'd go with a tough fluoro like, Abrazx, in like 12 lb test. Seems plenty strong to me. I don't like to use braid for cranks, but I know people who do, and they make some adjustments to make it work for them. Can't really argue against success. However, just like you can hammer a nail in a board with a wrench, you are better off using a hammer. Sure you can make braid work for all your applications or heavy copoly line, but it kind of seems like using only a wrench for all you home repairs.
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Old 09-26-12, 03:39 PM   #4
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Bassboogieman I looked at the Supremes and President’s…..would of bought one but was concerned about the saltwater so I went with a lower model…..but very pleased with it. I was impressed with how it threw out that D.O.A shrimp! I hear ya on the wrench thing. For me it’s a love thing with the braid. The leader was helped with flippin and pitchin cause braid can really bite into wood. But arfish I hear ya on the rock issue though
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Old 09-26-12, 03:40 PM   #5
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I'm in the lighter is better camp. 12lb is my general purpose fishing line size, I use it for cranking and most everything else. I do have a couple of rods spooled with heavier fluoro, like 16lb test. I'm using it for techniques and situations that require a heavier line, that's not the problem, the problem is, I feel I lose a considerable amount of casting distance with heavier lines. Making long, accurate casts is one of my strengths and something I rely on. The casting distance I lose with heavier line is a problem. I couldn't imagine using 15-20lb test for everything. Plus, I don't have a problem with break offs using the lighter lines.
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Old 09-26-12, 03:50 PM   #6
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Well I as well use ten pd braid for summer suspended fish unweighted senko,and 20 for flipping or topwater,yet 40 or more for going back in the jungle as the difference is to reel one out across the top versus going in after it on the troller-by jungle I mean american lotus has roots the size of ones forearm.Its not thousands of plants most are interconnected via the root sytem anywhere it tops out sends up another shoot,or pad.
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Old 09-26-12, 04:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmule View Post
Well I as well use ten pd braid for summer suspended fish unweighted senko,and 20 for flipping or topwater,yet 40 or more for going back in the jungle as the difference is to reel one out across the top versus going in after it on the troller-by jungle I mean american lotus has roots the size of ones forearm.Its not thousands of plants most are interconnected via the root sytem anywhere it tops out sends up another shoot,or pad.
yep. When I head down to fish the lake that is my avatar, I have a reel I keep spooled with 40 lb braid. Tons of lily pads, tupelo trees and cypress knees. Water is about the same color as my mom's sweet tea. My dad who lives down there use to keep braid on all his setups, till I moved up to the Ozarks, now he keeps a few rigged with copoly for when we go fishing up here.
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Old 09-26-12, 04:24 PM   #8
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Maybe I'm not as crazy as I thought
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Old 09-26-12, 05:31 PM   #9
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I have been wondering why so heavy line also. I use 10,12 most of the time. I do have 15on my flipping setup. All mono. I am trying out some Yu-zuri Hybrid in 12 pound test for pitching. I have visible grass lines, boatdocks, hydrilla, peppergrass, and pads in the lakes I fish. Fish Texas rigged plastic worms and dropshot mostly but am getting back into crank and spinnerbaits for the fall.

Haven't had a problem with breakoffs and I have put some good quality fish in the boat.
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Old 09-26-12, 06:02 PM   #10
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Just want to remind everyone, it's going to be an experiment I'm trying, which I may or may not like. But remember, I was talking about actual line diameter, not just pound rating. If I can get a stronger line without going up in line diameter, why not? I have a couple rods rigged with 20# floroclear, but you would never know it. It feels and casts like 14 pound line. And the 15 # floroclear feels and casts like 12 pound mono. Now if I were fishing waters that are barren of cover, I would go lighter. But thats not the case. The water I fish is full of heavy cover. And it's rare that I'm trying to get a crankbait deeper than 12 foot, so a line which is the equivilent of 12# mono should work just fine.
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Old 09-26-12, 09:05 PM   #11
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Kdog not directed towards you buddy…….just somethingbi had been thinking about
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Old 09-26-12, 09:29 PM   #12
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I've always believed in using the lightest line that the cover and targeted fish would allow. Most of the lakes I fish are very clear, some have lots of milfoil, but few have lillies. Most of my baitcasters are spooled with 10 or 12# mono or fluoro. However I do have a lake in my current rotation that is clear and has acre upon acre of standing timber in 12-20' ft of water. Run a DT14-16 through those trees in summer or winter....jeez louise braids the ticket for that program

CB if you get a deep crank hung up in 18' is the braid your using strong enough to straigten the hooks and save the plug? or is it a goner?

Let's assume that our casting skills are equal.....same reel/rod/lure etc...do you think you can cast yours as far with braid as I can with 10 lb mono? And without the braid digging in or whatever happens that stops it in its tracks 20 or 30 yds out? I'd like to like braid but just find it really hard to manage.
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Old 09-26-12, 09:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keithdog View Post
Just want to remind everyone, it's going to be an experiment I'm trying, which I may or may not like. But remember, I was talking about actual line diameter, not just pound rating. If I can get a stronger line without going up in line diameter, why not? I have a couple rods rigged with 20# floroclear, but you would never know it. It feels and casts like 14 pound line. And the 15 # floroclear feels and casts like 12 pound mono. Now if I were fishing waters that are barren of cover, I would go lighter. But thats not the case. The water I fish is full of heavy cover. And it's rare that I'm trying to get a crankbait deeper than 12 foot, so a line which is the equivilent of 12# mono should work just fine.
I understand the idea and I think it's not bad.
Again, he's talking SAME diameter.
That's like saying if someone made my current favorite stronger that would be bad.
Maybe I'm weird but I buy my lines usually with diameter in mind.
The thinner and the stronger the better, in my view anyways.

I find this a very interesting topic.
Thanks Crank and Kieth
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Old 09-26-12, 10:26 PM   #14
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I use 8lb floroclear on my DS rig, 12lb floroclear on my shallow/medium crankbait/spinnerbait set up and 40lb braid on my frog/jig set up. Granted when I'm throwing my frog or jig it's right in the middle of a mass of lily pads or right at the edges of them, right at the edges of tullies or in and around rocks where all the bass seem to want to run right back in to.
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Old 09-26-12, 10:57 PM   #15
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So the discussion continues - it's strength vs line diameter. I get that, so which is more advantageous to fishing? For the sake of discussion using 12# mono as a baseline and also for the discussion the 12# baseline mono also has an IGFA approved breaking srength (test) of 12#.

Different lines of the same breaking strength can have different line diameters dependant upon the material the line is constructed from. In this discussion we're considering co-polymer line and p primary characteristic of co-poly is it is stronger than comparable mono (the baseline) of the same diameter or line size.

There are two schools of thought at work here among the members. One side of the room thinks there may be an advantage in using a line that is stronger yet the same diameter of the base line mono (12#). Therefore changing to a co-polymer line with the same size diameter as our 12# mono baseline, allows the use of a line with about 15# breaking strength (test). End result, same "size" line, but gains another 3# of breaking strength without loosing anything in exchange.

The other side of the room, has a different opinion and see co-polymer's advantage as being a line of the same breaking strength (test) as the baseline 12# mono, but having a smaller diameter, which makes it thinner. End result, same strength but thinner line may impove castability, impove ability to run a lure slightly deeper & be less visibile without loosing anything in exchange.

Each side of the room sees advantages, and neither is incorrect in thier opinion. Depends upon your fishing style, water fished, and personal preferences. Is one more advantageous in the pursuit of bass? Depends on which side of the room you're sitting in. Democrats on the left, Republicans on the right. Wait, this isn't a political discussion, just sounds like one.................
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Old 09-26-12, 11:08 PM   #16
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I guess I fall into the group that thinks the line with the same breaking strength in a thinner diameter is the way to go. I much prefer the added manageability, deeper running capabilities and better casting to a higher breaking strength in the same diameter. It might be a different story if I had a problem with break offs but I don't.
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Old 09-26-12, 11:31 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassboogieman View Post
So the discussion continues - it's strength vs line diameter. I get that, so which is more advantageous to fishing? For the sake of discussion using 12# mono as a baseline and also for the discussion the 12# baseline mono also has an IGFA approved breaking srength (test) of 12#.

Different lines of the same breaking strength can have different line diameters dependant upon the material the line is constructed from. In this discussion we're considering co-polymer line and p primary characteristic of co-poly is it is stronger than comparable mono (the baseline) of the same diameter or line size.

There are two schools of thought at work here among the members. One side of the room thinks there may be an advantage in using a line that is stronger yet the same diameter of the base line mono (12#). Therefore changing to a co-polymer line with the same size diameter as our 12# mono baseline, allows the use of a line with about 15# breaking strength (test). End result, same "size" line, but gains another 3# of breaking strength without loosing anything in exchange.

The other side of the room, has a different opinion and see co-polymer's advantage as being a line of the same breaking strength (test) as the baseline 12# mono, but having a smaller diameter, which makes it thinner. End result, same strength but thinner line may impove castability, impove ability to run a lure slightly deeper & be less visibile without loosing anything in exchange.

Each side of the room sees advantages, and neither is incorrect in thier opinion. Depends upon your fishing style, water fished, and personal preferences. Is one more advantageous in the pursuit of bass? Depends on which side of the room you're sitting in. Democrats on the left, Republicans on the right. Wait, this isn't a political discussion, just sounds like one.................
Very well put indeed. If I fished waters like the Wheeler/Wilson lakes we fished a couple years ago, I would probably be fishing 10-12 pound lines simply because there is almost nothing in the water to worry about. I've never seen a lake so void of cover. And depending on where you are fishing, it can be very clear. So long casts and running deeper is the ticket there. Now in my lakes, there is heavy cover everywhere you look. It's common to be dragging your spinnerbait across several laydowns, through lilly pads, around heavy clumps of weeds, ect. So therefore, in my lakes, long casts are not the need. Rather, shorter, pin point casts are required. Now if I get out away from the cover and cast crankbaits around the deeper edges of the weedbeds, which I do often, longer casts are appreciated. But even at that, it's never deeper than 12-16 feet. There, a line with the diameter of a 12 pound mono works quite well. So it's really all about the bodies of water you fish, and their makeup. Clear water with little cover and deeper water would require lighter diameter lines. Shallow water with lots of cover that can damage even the best of lines require heavier line. In my situation, a heavier line with a narrower diameter fits the bill. Or so I think. haha
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Old 09-29-12, 04:14 PM   #18
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Kenn when I crank with 6lb test im usually hitting 0’-15’ with 10lb for deeper. How strong of line would you need to straighten out hooks…..i’m talking mono. I have bent a few hooks on 6lb….small cranks though with number 4 or 6 trebles. I can say this with casting Sufix 6lb performance braid…it cast awesome. When I first was using 10lb suffix mono I noticed that you can bird nest your spool down to the spool. Braid doesn’t do that. It cinches after a couple of turns. I can pick it out with my fingers or use my trusty knitting needle….yeah I know but that thing works I never leave home without it!
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