Bass Fishing HomeBass Fishing Forums

Go Back   BassFishin.Com Forums > Serious Conversation Only > General Bass Fishing Topics

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-20-13, 03:54 PM   #1
Rebbasser
BassFishin.Com Premier Elite
 
Rebbasser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 10,140
Default Interesting philosophy on fishing

As I was reading the latest issue of Bassmaster there is a very interesting article referencing Bill Siemantel who is known as a big bass specialist-on a side note, he has a book out about catching big bass sold on this site and has some great info-regarding how he thinks about catching fish. I think most if not all of us think of ourselves as the predator and the fish as prey. He takes the approach that WE are the prey, or more specifically our bait is the prey and if you think about it it makes perfect sense. We are not hunting like you do for deer but trying to make the bass think our offering is their prey and thus hitting it.

I had never looked at it from this angle, but I sure will from now on.
__________________
It's happened to the best of them: John 21:3
Rebbasser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 06:50 PM   #2
bamabassman
BassFishin.Com Premier Elite
 
bamabassman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: cedar bluff, alabama
Posts: 15,292
Default

that IS interesting rebb...i TRY to make the bait look entycing...but this reinforces me to RE-THINK things. hmm.....
__________________
so many lures, so little time.
bamabassman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 07:27 PM   #3
keithdog
BassFishin.Com Premier Elite
 
keithdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: IN
Posts: 8,308
Default

I like that philosophy. But I think thats what most of us try to do, make our offering look like prey. But it's the when, where and how that makes the difference. At least that my take.
__________________
Just one more cast, and then some!
keithdog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 08:16 PM   #4
kennethdaysale
BassFishin.Com Super Veteran
 
kennethdaysale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: rock hill, sc
Posts: 2,315
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebbasser View Post
As I was reading the latest issue of Bassmaster there is a very interesting article referencing Bill Siemantel who is known as a big bass specialist-on a side note, he has a book out about catching big bass sold on this site and has some great info-regarding how he thinks about catching fish. I think most if not all of us think of ourselves as the predator and the fish as prey. He takes the approach that WE are the prey, or more specifically our bait is the prey and if you think about it it makes perfect sense. We are not hunting like you do for deer but trying to make the bass think our offering is their prey and thus hitting it.

I had never looked at it from this angle, but I sure will from now on.
I hear what your/he's saying but don't you think on some level you've been thinking that way all along. I know good and well when you get a tap on a worm you've probably mumbled under your breath...."go on eat it EAT IT"
__________________
Sometimes you gotta risk it to get the biscuit.
kennethdaysale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 08:19 PM   #5
WTL
BassFishin.Com Premier Elite
 
WTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Huntsville, Al
Posts: 7,466
Default

That sounds good. But what does it mean to make a lure behave like prey?

Take a spinnerbait, which is imitating some sort of baitfish. What would the baitfish as prey move like? Well, ideally if I were a baitfish I would stay buried in some sort of cover and never enter the open water. So does that mean I though as far into cover as possible? Or would it be better that I behave not just like prey, or intellegent prey, but rather I behave like prey with a death wish.

That would be prey near, but just out of cover, acting like it has an injury.

Edit; another implication, which may be more in line with what Siemantel is thinking, is, when I get to casting a lot, and I'm power fishing, I start bringing the heat like I'm a pitcher. And if I see a perfect pocket in cover, I plow through it. I am moving so fast, that the presentation becomes tuned more towards getting as many casts in, and not maximizing the vulnerable prey aspects of the presentation.
__________________
Selling live waterdogs for less since 2005.

Last edited by WTL; 01-20-13 at 08:32 PM.
WTL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 08:38 PM   #6
bassinbob
BassFishin.Com Super Veteran
 
bassinbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Pitts. Pa.
Posts: 3,801
Default

That's interesting Reb. It's funny though because prey at times co-exist with predators. We've all watched vids of bluegill swimming along with bass. Heck go to Cabelas and view the fish tanks. Side by side they swim. If we could figure out the ques prey makes to entice the preds into an eating frenzy then we could emulate the prey.
__________________
you can have my fishin rod when ya take it from my cold dead hands
bassinbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 08:58 PM   #7
Marty
BassFishin.Com Super Veteran
 
Marty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 1,580
Default

Interesting. There is another thread on this site about the book, Knowing Bass, by Dr. Keith Jones. Dr. Jones believes--and I tend to fish along his beliefs--that lures don't have to match prey, don't have to look natural, etc. What they must do is appeal to the fish's senses and sometimes they do better at that than the real thing. I am well aware that many don't buy into that philosophy.

My belief is based on 40+ years of witnessing catches and catching fish myself on every conceivable size, shape, color, action, material and other properties of lures.
__________________
Meeting expenses is easy...they're EVERYWHERE

The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits

Rochester, NY
Marty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-13, 11:08 PM   #8
Rebbasser
BassFishin.Com Premier Elite
 
Rebbasser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 10,140
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethdaysale View Post
I hear what your/he's saying but don't you think on some level you've been thinking that way all along. I know good and well when you get a tap on a worm you've probably mumbled under your breath...."go on eat it EAT IT"
Yeah, Ken, I agree with you on that. I guess it is that I had not thought about it in those terms. It is more of the challenge of getting the fish to bite and I never thought about the bait as prey so much as it is me vs. the fish. Sometimes I win, sometimes the fish wins. The fish probably wins a whole lot more that I do.

We spend big bucks on gear only to get outsmarted by a green or brown fish with a brain the size of a pea on a regular basis. Doesn't make a lot of sense when you look at it like that, does it? But is it ever fun and we love every minute of it! That's why we fish!
__________________
It's happened to the best of them: John 21:3
Rebbasser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-13, 09:40 PM   #9
Thingfish
BassFishin.Com Member
 
Thingfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Orlando
Posts: 32
Default

I don't "power fish" much, I'm more of a finesse guy so I tend to think along those "prey" lines anyway. Also, I've kept aquariums and been a diver/snorkeler for almost as long as I've been fishing. It has taught me a lot about how prey items are approached by fish and also stuff like orientation to cover, current and other good stuff. Whether I'm fishing a worm or other soft plastic, working a topwater or twitching a jerkbait, I'm trying to mimic the things I have seen in aquariums or snorkeling.
Thingfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-13, 10:38 PM   #10
bassinbob
BassFishin.Com Super Veteran
 
bassinbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Pitts. Pa.
Posts: 3,801
Default

. Whether I'm fishing a worm or other soft plastic, working a topwater or twitching a jerkbait, I'm trying to mimic the things I have seen in aquariums or snorkeling.[/QUOTE]


Care to share some of those insights Thing?
__________________
you can have my fishin rod when ya take it from my cold dead hands
bassinbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-13, 07:28 PM   #11
Thingfish
BassFishin.Com Member
 
Thingfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Orlando
Posts: 32
Default

I'll give it a try! I guess it would be best to start with the prey items. In aquariums it is common to have small schooling fish in groups of 10 or more, a few medium-sized fish who hang out in pairs or loose groups and one or two larger fish. The larger fish are often predators, though not many super-aggressive fish are kept in this type of "community" tank. You could equate these three types to minnows, bluegill and bass.

The schooling fish like to browse the bottom or plants in mid-water in search of food. They don't really like the surface areas as much (inborn fear of predation from birds I suspect). They will hang out at the surface in a few scenarios; feeding time and when the predators below take an interest in them. This is what I see when fishing as well. A bloom of microalgae or an insect hatch will bring schools of prey to the surface. So will a school of hungry bass, working minnows or shad up from below and pinning them against the surface.

Medium-sized aquarium fish are opportunists. They will take a small schooling fish if they have the opportunity, but they are just as happy with worms, mosquito larvae, etc. and their counterpart, the bluegill is much the same. And in the aquarium the medium-sized fish can fall prey to a predator, especially a sick or wounded one. They play both sides of the fence, predator and prey.

Larger aquarium predators know they are feared and avoided. Given clear warning, no smaller fish will let them approach without avoiding the head area. Most of the time the larger fish aren't hunting. They are aquarium pets and are fed regularly after all. But they do stalk and ambush some times. They will do what bass do, orient to cover, hold downstream of any filter's current and move slowly and deliberately to cut off escape routes of their prey. When fed live food (grass shrimp or young guppies typically) they will become very excited and aggressive and chase them down and strike. You can equate this to chasing a crankbait when power fishing. When fed fresh (but dead) food they approach and inspect it. They can suck it in, often blowing it out and taking it back again. They will be more assertive if they think another fish will get some. You could equate that to worm fishing or flipping jigs into mats.
Thingfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-13, 08:28 AM   #12
joedog
BassFishin.Com Super Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: JANESVILLE,WI. 53545
Posts: 3,415
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty View Post
Interesting. There is another thread on this site about the book, Knowing Bass, by Dr. Keith Jones. Dr. Jones believes--and I tend to fish along his beliefs--that lures don't have to match prey, don't have to look natural, etc. What they must do is appeal to the fish's senses and sometimes they do better at that than the real thing. I am well aware that many don't buy into that philosophy.

My belief is based on 40+ years of witnessing catches and catching fish myself on every conceivable size, shape, color, action, material and other properties of lures.
Jones and I think Siemantel are actually saying the same thing.
picture framing.....illusion of realism.....viewing window, same thoughts as Jones just simpler wording and explanations....and shorter.

And yes I do try to work baits as prey and it's corresponding movements and color. Color being the least effective stimulator and action the primary stimulator.
Actually that's why I searched out and for, 'Knowing Bass'.
I wanted to learn more about the 'whys' of a Basses predatory instincts.
The 'Good read' thread I started does the same...just the short version.
BassMaster article does the same with even less detail and shorter read still.
__________________
"Fishing isn't life or death... it's more important than that."
joedog is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Disclosure / Disclaimer
Before acting on the content posted, you should know that BassFishin.Com may benefit financially and otherwise from content, advertising, links or otherwise from anything you click on, read, or look at on our website. Click here to read our Disclosure Policy and Disclaimer.


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
2013 BassFishin.Com LLC