New section of Potomac River shut down!!!

[TN_Bassin]

Originally Posted by screwballl

Environmentalist lobbyists stepping up and getting the current administration to ban "potentially damaging usage, such as fishing" under the guise of national security.

Too much is being done these days for "national security" without a proper explaination.

[3dkicker]

I don't like how they made the request for the change public in Baltimore and Norfolk which didn't give anyone a chance to comment. Only three comments? Seriously? With all the people who fish the Potomac on a regular basis? When I saw the contact information I was ready to call or email but then I saw the deadline. I definitely would have made a comment and so would many others that I know.

Was there a process to make this information public in the DC/Fredericksburg area?

All I can say is this is very disappointing. Even the Major (USMC retired) is unhappy with the process and decision.

[XIntel007]

3D,
That is a valid complaint. The US Army Corps of Engineers has two headquarter locations, one in Baltimore and one in Hampton Roads. Both have jurisdiction over government facilities impacting the Potomac. They are not exercising eminent domain so they didn't have to have a public hearing. They already owned that portion of the river and the creek. They simply exercised their right to close down the portion of the river they are responsible for. As a former SSgt and former Counterintelligence professional, I applaud them. This was a major finding in several threat assessments conducted by other CI Marines. Again, the issue is not defense against a waterborne attack. Think surreptitious entry and sabotage or information gathering against HMX1.

[Ebbetsguy]

Originally Posted by TN_Bassin

Too much is being done these days for "national security" without a proper explaination.

Great a 19 year old, with a don't tread on me attitude, talking about National Security. The same committe that has been at the forefront of upgrading protection from a terrorist threat on water front strategic areas has stopped an actual threat, already put in motion at LaHoya and the San Diego Bay Area, these threats taken lightly give you 9/11 sucessful operations, young man you need to wise up a bit before you pipe up
The Marines also have had horrible attacks on them, on forigen soil and are not looking at getting hit on home court, how hard is it for folks to understand that. It is recent history, so it is better to hear you howl at loosing some precious fishing waters, then to hear the widows weep at the caskets of their fallen husbands protecting all of us.

[cassidyta]

Actually, his statement was simply that he wanted an expaination. Since when does that require a minimum age? The last time I checked he is old enough to vote and old enough to serve the military. At that point, he is old enough to voice his opinion.

[Ebbetsguy]

Here is what else he wrote:
What if, in the process of protecting the nation, the nation we are protecting becomes worse than the people we're trying to protect it from? "IT'S ONLY FISHING" is what you said. One day it's fishing another day it's something else. Seemingly small in the grand scheme of things, but these things add up over time, and once the government takes more power, it's mighty hard to get them to give up that power.

Look I can’t argue tournament fishing, because I do not know anything about it, this is a fishing forum and someone decided to get political, about a topic I know a bit about, actually I learned a lot about after witnessing 9/11 first hand. I make no apologies to the boys club here, but you are not old enough to have seen some of the things I have seen and if this hurts anyone’s feelings, do not know what you are talking about. Something’s are learned throughout the years of experience we go through , that’s just how it is
[ By not paying attention, over the years to the threats around us, we got caught with our pants down, many were lost and they successfully created an air of paranoia, the only mission they failed out was toppling the economy. I have no problem with standing firm and I have no problems with pointing out some of the follies of youth.[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] When i was younger I thought I knew things I didn’t fully understand and they were pointed out to me, so you crying to the wrong realist

You live in San Diego so I am sure you appreicate the threat that was recently stopped, you think they just fell on that information or were not paying attention to the Navy installations there?

[cassidyta]

Ebbets,

I will never state that experience is not of value, but I will speak out against a statement that starts with
"Great a 19 year old, with a don't tread on me attitude, talking about National Security."
Is it not those same 19 year olds who are fighting in foreign lands today? How old do you think the PFC of LCpl guarding the edges of the potomac will be?

I really couldn't care about hurt feelings, but from what I can see you tend to feel that there is your way and the wrong way. I find your statement that I am not old enough quite humorous being that you know nothing about me nor my past. All that you know is that I did not agree with you so I must be young.

[carolina-rig-01]

This is just yet one more thread where Muddy (Ebbetsguy) started running his mouth and insulting other members who are wrong because they don't agree with his opinion. I am not saying who's right or wrong here, both sides make some valid points. However what I will say is that Muddy (Ebbetsguy) has no right to dismiss or insult another member just because he is younger. Ebbetsguy, you praise the 19 year olds who fight for this country, but ridicule another 19 year old just because he is too young to have an opinion. Once again you make no sense. I bet if his opinion was the same as yours then you wouldn't have this sit down and shut up attitude.

I thought you left?

[Ebbetsguy]

Cass; I did not say anything about your age, I said something about the kid from TN. I have no idea how old you are.
When I know I am right I am not embarassed or shy about stating that, I come to places like this expecting to talk about fishing, but this was up, I care strongly about this issue, if people don't like that, then stuff like this should not be allowed here in the first place.

[carolina-rig-01]

Well this thread started out being about fishing more less and then you took the ball and ran with it and next thing you know it ended up another classic Ebbetsguy train wreck.

[cassidyta]

Being that you responded to me and were using things such as ". I make no apologies to the boys club here, but you are not old enough to have seen some of the things I have seen and if this hurts anyone’s feelings, do not know what you are talking about." I am left to think it was directed at me.

The funny part is that I am in complete agreement with intel on this one and have no issues with how he handled the situation. Hell, he even stated that he could understand 3D's reason for feeling how he did.

You however "know" that you are right and as such you also "know" that anyone who disagrees is wrong. It is not the fact that you voice your opinion, it is that you have a need to insult others to get your point across that I find offensive. I am not sure if you are that closed minded or if you are just looking to build up your own self at the cost of others.
You appear to thrive on drama, it is a stench that lingers on several posts where you participate. It doesn't matter if you are commenting on a technique, a photo, or a closed body of water. You are determined to find a way to take a jab at someone while covering it under the guise of a comment.

[Ebbetsguy]

I have no need to build up anything. The boys club remark was directed at a 19 year old, who thinks freedom and safety are not aligned with responsibility and vigilance. I saw what happened when this country put its guard down over a period of decades. I really don't give much thought to how people like or do not like how I express myself, I do okay in real time with my close friends, sometimes I have time to kill, working the overnights and they are not awake to talk with. I hang with a lot of strongly opinionated folks, who are not shy about things or take each other that seriously.
I left this thread the other night, and saw a few more responses I jumped in again if my tone bothers you, there is nothing I can do about that. Back to work have a good night

[BigBassMan]

The world has changed in the last few decades, us old timers are too aware of things going on to let our guard down for even a second. Have any of you 19 year olds watched the news lately? Most never been or have heard of some of the places in the world that is about ready to erupt. It is a danger for Americans to travel abroad in over half the world. Look what happened just yesterday to four innocent people.
There are terror cells all over this country planning an waiting an it is some of us who are trying to stop them before you get hurt or worse.

[3dkicker]

Intel - Just a thought but wouldn't the air base be safer if the helicopters were landed further in on the base away from the public waters of the Potomac. I know the base is many thousands of acres and they also have plenty of land on the west side of 95 to use. Maybe they could use the golf course on the base (sarcasm intended).
And the last time I checked it was MD that owned the main stem of the Potomac river not the US Government or the US Military. And that is what they are now taking control of. I've been told that Chop. Island is broken up into three parts, one part MD, and the other two are split between two counties of VA (or two parts MD and one VA). And I'm pretty sure it is private land that's why it isn't included in the restricted zone. So if someone got permission from the property owner to be on the island they could watch the base 24/7.

[CamG]

Originally Posted by Ebbetsguy

Thanks for your service, and it is this attitude and the youngsters here that really is offensive. I hope you stay safe sir, and I pray that your comrades do also, I can no longer participate here and stay out of trouble ,I am out of here.

Man, you've threatened this how many times? And, went so far as to change your user name to try and "get along".

Really wish you would keep your promises.

[Captmikestarrett]

Some from the canal in 07..






And many more in the 90's...

Capt Mike

[TN_Bassin]

Originally Posted by Ebbetsguy

Great a 19 year old, with a don't tread on me attitude, talking about National Security. The same committe that has been at the forefront of upgrading protection from a terrorist threat on water front strategic areas has stopped an actual threat, already put in motion at LaHoya and the San Diego Bay Area, these threats taken lightly give you 9/11 sucessful operations, young man you need to wise up a bit before you pipe up
The Marines also have had horrible attacks on them, on forigen soil and are not looking at getting hit on home court, how hard is it for folks to understand that. It is recent history, so it is better to hear you howl at loosing some precious fishing waters, then to hear the widows weep at the caskets of their fallen husbands protecting all of us.

Ebbets/Muddy/Dominic/and whatever else you call yourself, you strike me as one of these guys who uses anything and everything at your disposal to feed your holyer-than-thou egotistical mind. And if you think for a second that I have forgotten any of the attacks on this country, especially 9/11, that just shows how ignorant you are. On that day, I was sitting in my fifth grade homeroom watching the whole thing play out over the school's tv's. I remember my social studies teacher lecturing about who had done it, at that time he was wrong on his first thought (Palistine), but i still couldn't for the life of me understand why anyone, anywhere, practicing any religion could kill themselves, or other people just for an idealogy that had been warped and corroded over hundreds of years. Just because you could see what happened from your house, doesn't put you in anymore of a position to be struck by the act than it does for any other American citizen. Many lives were lost in the convining years, and my prayers go out to each and everyone's family.

I don't know when the last time it was that you took a look at the Declaration of Independence, but it clearly states that it is a citizens right and responsibility to question the government's decisions regarding any subject.

And so what if I'm nineteen. Do i have to pay a membership to be included in discussions of the subject's that affect my future as well as your's?

Agree with me, disagree with me (I respect that), but don't question my patriotism.

And to you BigBassMan, did I slight you in some way you have to attack my age? I guess because of my age it is impossible for me to comprehend the dangers that threaten us every day, or to know where Kenya is on a globe?

P.S- sorry for getting so off topic, and you guys who are affected by this closure, you should keep fighting to get it repealed.

[Ebbetsguy]

Cam G; I left the thread that night,( as i stated) as I was too emotionally involved came back a few days later to it and stayed that way, your opinion of whether or not I should stay here has no effect on me, frankly I don't give a damn.

TN; no but you can question mine???

The Declaration of independence and the Constitution are 2 of my favorite documents, along with the Bill of Rights.

You have not lived long enough to have experienced what I have, that just the way it is, again I am not sorry but freedom comes with responsibility

It is a dangerous world and while i am opposed to the Patriot Act in its entirety, I am not opposed in our Armed Forces trying to protect their bases, WHERE THEIR FAMILIES LIVE, while they are fighting to protect our families.
Young man, please , widen the scope of your reading, after the last two embassies were attacked , those responsible , stated on their radio stations that America's home Military Bases would be next, so we now have a fishing restriction to help this out and a lot of whining going on. I have no remorse or do i think twice about stating that age limits experience because i have made errors of judgment about things due to my age and inexperience, the difference was my elders had no problem telling me and in the end they were mostly correct.

[TN_Bassin]

Ebbets, find one sentence in my previous post that questions your patriotism. Just because you have tendancies to need to raise yourself to a higher echelon at others expenses doesn't mean you're not patriotic.

And my friend lemme tell you something. I would be so bold as to say I've widened the scope of my reading far beyond anything you have even imagined. I thought I'd mention this since you obviously have done an extensive background on me, and know my entire life story.

One final thing to say before I drop the whole thing because you are not worth the energy I'm wasting typing this reponse, next time you decide to pick on someone because you think you know better than they do, try and pick an easier target. Would have thought you would be good at picking your targets, considering narcissists tend to make their trade their entire life's work (you know from your infinite experience of the ages you are so quick to remind everyone of)

[Ebbetsguy]

Gee Ill go out on a limb; Have you read the Declaration If Independence, as well as the jabs at me not understanding the whittling away of personal freedoms, which is a difficult balance to maintain today at best.

Narssacistic nay, sure of myself, yes Big difference.


Backround check; your obvious, You do not need a weather man to know whcih way the wind is blowing. In the end you are neither friend or family so this is of no importance. The people who live in San Diego generally appreciate the new restrictions, there was a real domestic threat stopped there.

[BigBassMan]

A college student from Saudi Arabia studying chemical engineering in Texas has been arrested by the FBI for allegedly planning a terrorist attack on U.S. targets using explosive chemicals.
Khalid Aldawsari, who is legally in the U.S. on a student visa, allegedly targeted the Dallas home of former President George W. Bush. He was arrested late Tuesday on a federal charge of attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction.
“Yesterday’s arrest demonstrates the need for and the importance of vigilance and the willingness of private individuals and companies to ask questions and contact the authorities when confronted with suspicious activities,” said James T. Jacks, U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Texas.
Aldawsari, 20, entered the U.S. in October 2008 from Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, to study at Texas Tech University, then transferred earlier this year to nearby South Plains College.
Federal prosecutors say Aldawsari had been researching online how to construct an improvised explosive device using several chemicals as ingredients. Authorities say Aldawsari's diary indicated the young man had been plotting an attack for years and obtained a scholarship so he could come directly to the United State to carry out jihad.
"After mastering the English language, learning how to build explosives and continuous planning to target the infidel Americans, it is time for jihad," the student wrote in his journal, according to court documents.
In e-mails Aldawsari apparently sent himself, he listed the names of 12 reservoir dams in Colorado and California. He also wrote an e-mail that mentioned "Tyrant's House" with the address of President Bush's home. The FBI's affidavit said he considered using infant dolls to hide explosives and was possibly targeting a nightclub with a backpack filled with explosives.
The White House said President Barack Obama was notified about the plot prior to Aldawsari's arrest Wednesday.
"This arrest once again underscores the necessity of remaining vigilant against terrorism here and abroad," White House spokesman Nick Shapiro said in a statement Thursday.
One of the chemical companies, Carolina Biological Supply of Burlington, N.C., reported suspicious purchases by the student to the FBI on Feb. 1. Within weeks, federal agents had traced his other online purchases, discovered extremist posts he made on the Internet and secretly searched his apartment, computer and e-mail accounts and read his diary, according to court records.
The FBI said the North Carolina company reported the attempts to purchase phenol, a chemical that can be used to make the explosive trinitrophenol, also known as TNP, or picric acid. Aldawsari falsely told the supplier he was associated with a university and wanted the phenol for "off-campus, personal research," according to court records. But frustrated by questions, Aldawsari canceled his order and later e-mailed himself instructions for producing phenol. Prosecutors said that in December 2010, he successfully purchased concentrated nitric and sulfuric acids that are combined to make TNP.
“As alleged in the complaint, Aldawsari purchased ingredients to construct an explosive device and was actively researching potential targets in the United States. Thanks to the efforts of many agents, analysts and prosecutors, this plot was thwarted before it could advance further,” said Assistant Attorney General Kris. “This case serves as another reminder of the need for continued vigilance both at home and abroad.”
Aldawsari is expected to appear in federal court in Lubbock on Friday morning. He faces a maximum sentence of life in prison and a $250,000 fine if convicted of attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.

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Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/02/24...#ixzz1Eub14bBH

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"After mastering the English language, learning how to build explosives and continuous planning to target the infidel Americans, it is time for jihad," the student wrote in his journal, according to court documents.
In e-mails Aldawsari apparently sent himself, he listed the names of 12 reservoir dams in Colorado and California. He also wrote an e-mail that mentioned "Tyrant's House" with the address of President Bush's home. The FBI's affidavit said he considered using infant dolls to hide explosives and was possibly targeting a nightclub with a backpack filled with explosives.
The White House said President Barack Obama was notified about the plot prior to Aldawsari's arrest Wednesday.
"This arrest once again underscores the necessity of remaining vigilant against terrorism here and abroad," White House spokesman Nick Shapiro said in a statement Thursday.
One of the chemical companies, Carolina Biological Supply of Burlington, N.C., reported suspicious purchases by the student to the FBI on Feb. 1. Within weeks, federal agents had traced his other online purchases, discovered extremist posts he made on the Internet and secretly searched his apartment, computer and e-mail accounts and read his diary, according to court records.
The FBI said the North Carolina company reported the attempts to purchase phenol, a chemical that can be used to make the explosive trinitrophenol, also known as TNP, or picric acid. Aldawsari falsely told the supplier he was associated with a university and wanted the phenol for "off-campus, personal research," according to court records. But frustrated by questions, Aldawsari canceled his order and later e-mailed himself instructions for producing phenol. Prosecutors said that in December 2010, he successfully purchased concentrated nitric and sulfuric acids that are combined to make TNP.
“As alleged in the complaint, Aldawsari purchased ingredients to construct an explosive device and was actively researching potential targets in the United States. Thanks to the efforts of many agents, analysts and prosecutors, this plot was thwarted before it could advance further,” said Assistant Attorney General Kris. “This case serves as another reminder of the need for continued vigilance both at home and abroad.”
Aldawsari is expected to appear in federal court in Lubbock on Friday morning. He faces a maximum sentence of life in prison and a $250,000 fine if convicted of attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/02/24...#ixzz1Euaeix88
This is what is going on today all over this Country

[BigBassMan]

Last part came out twice, sorry.

[nofearengineer]

Interesting post, BigBassMan...I'm just not sure what the relevance to this thread is.

Are you giving this as an example of what we are up against? If so, then by that logic, we should shut down air travel, since we know terrorists are plotting to blow up planes.

My philosophy has always been, and will continue to be, hunt rather than be hunted. The French learned the futility of fixed fortifications in WW2.

Terrorists are not driving Panzer tanks, but they are relying upon us to "hunker down", while they strike elsewhere. We can not protect all targets simultaneously.

[XIntel007]

3D, Chop is private land, in fact I believe it is for sale right now at a low low price of $25 million. You are correct, MD runs control over the majority of the Potomac. In fact, if you look at the boundaries set out by the Corps they are pushing their standoff zone out to that line on the Eastern edge. Neither VA nor MD "own" that portion of the Potomac. It is not considered part of the "water way" rather it is a portion of the easement surrounding Quantico.

Look, I agree that I would rather be fishing that portion of the river but I want folks to consider that they may not know every detail of why the Corps chose to shut it down. I have my guesses based on past and current work. I can accept that they know something I don't and I know the culture of the Corps and that it is not inherently out to stomp on my liberties. I only hope to convey to all on this forum that the Corps is not doing this out of malicious intent nor are they doing it without considering the impact on our recreational fun.

As for 19 year olds, some of the best people I know are 19 year olds. I value everyone's opinion. Lets get back to fishing.