They're at it again....

[nofearengineer]

These idiots really need to stop. If they get their ultimate wish, and deprive me of my retirement pastime of fishing, I will have nothing to do but ....well, here I start heading into legal issues.

http://www.sportfishingmag.com/news/...an-lead-tackle

[bassboogieman]

Choot 'em Bryce, choot 'em.

[joedog]

It won't ever end.
Thanks for the link, I went and sent three e-mails thats how many Reps. I got.

[Bender]

Originally Posted by bassboogieman

Choot 'em Bryce, choot 'em.

With lead shot, of course!

I've seen a good number of loons in the past few years and none of them were chasing my jigs. Really, I generally support environmental protection from pollution and such, but this is ridiculous. These people need to spend their time helping the homeless or hungry people. I wonder how much money they have wasted on this cause?

[Dogmatic]

I think this is all a big push by the "Big Tungsten" industry...

[DVT Mike]

NH has a ban already and Mass ban is effective 1/1/12. NY you can use lead just not buy it. How foolish is that? It's all pandering and foolishness. It's frightening to me that our futures are entrusted into the hands of politicians that have no common sense at all -none!

[DVT Mike]

Originally Posted by Dogmatic

I think this is all a big push by the "Big Tungsten" industry...

Ya, Big=Bad unless it's Govt.

[Dogmatic]

Love how the groups petitioning the EPA are labeled "Anti-Fishing", why aren't they labeled what they are, "Anti-Lead". I'm not allowed, nor would I, use lead shot when blasting waterfowl. Y'all got a problem with these groups petitioning the Government, and lobbying our Representatives, but no problem with "Big Energy" petitioning, lobbying, and buying our Government to deregulate their industry so it doesn't have to abide by EPA air quality/environmental standards. Hmmmm....

[bassboogieman]

Get real - the argument is anti-fishing. Lead as it pertains to fishing is a very small portion of the pie when compared to lead which poses a threat to humans or our environment as it was with gasoline (inhaled fumes) or paint (ingestion). Lead occurs naturally in the environment and is not hazzardous as such, unlike lead fumes or lead capable of being ingested. The hazzards of lead as it pertains to use in hunting or fishing is not near as critical as it was in gasoline or paint. To generalize the hazzards of lead is a tactic used to cloak the real agenda for goups like this one. We still have lead wheel weights - this group is not advocating the elemination of those. I didn't see them protesting against wet cell batteries - without lead they don't produce electricity. This goup is very specific in it's target in the lead issue - fishermen (as it was with hunters) and it they are protesting lead, they should protest all lead not just one specific use.

The hidden agenda by groups (like the one noted) protesting the "environmental hazzard" cloaks the real target - those of us that enjoy fishing and hunting. Lead shot was a victim, but lead shot put much more lead into the environment than fishing ever will, and was an easier targer for those anti-hunting/fishing groups than lead sinkers. But now that that has been successful the fishing community is now their targer.

Like any lobbying group - and that is precisely what these groups are - they rarely (if ever) have the interest of the entire population in mind, but rather they have the interest of a small, usually select group, with their personal agenda to promote.

These groups are no better than the lobbying groups representing "Big Energy" or other's as mentioned above. IMHO any group lobbing working for special interests is bad for the majority as a whole. Everyone involved in lobbing applies their personal spin on the topic in question to support their motives - wether they are 100% factual, is not considered - and accomplish thier goal regardless of the impact that may befall others.

What motive could this goup have to attack lead as it pertains to fishing other that being anti-fishing (or animal rights)? There are far greater environmental hazzards worthy of their attention, with far greater impact on our enviornment, like mining, fertilizer run off, smokestack emmissions, atomic waste storage, the list is endless. Lead sinkers lost in a lake -possibly to be ingested by waterfowl - pales by comparison. Goups like this one are especially vile as the hide behind what seems to be a good idea, to accomplish something else entirely.

[bassinbob]

They gotta start somewhere.

[Dogmatic]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....WAIT! Forgot to set my drag!

[Bassboss]

Personally, I wouldn't mind an all lead ban..................















IF TUNGSTEN'S PRICE WENT DOWN!!!

[Dogmatic]

How does this prohibit you from fishing, do hooks go away, do rods go away, reels, line, boats,plastics, lures, and weights(that don't involve lead), can you explain huh? This is more of the same ol' "don't mess with us" cr*p, "it'll cost jobs", "Big Gov't" blah, blah, blah. Just explain to me how this ends fishing? The argument against sounds a lot like the Assault weapon ban will end hunting nonsense.

[joedog]

You ever get involved with a thread that you knew in advance you shouldn't? Well I'm doing it again!?!
I'm not even going to discuss the pros or cons of the lead question.
But, just something to think about. Lead and hunting had an easy fix, ban lead shot.
Now fishing, what are they going to do? Wardens start carring metal detecters and checking the material used in your boxes of 50 jigs, a dozen containers of terminal tackle and God knows what else. Ever go to E-bay and type in vintage tackle or used tackle?
What does the guy who has thousands $ invested in lead containing lures do? We going to regulate every home based jig maker out there. (Ya, people can reload shells at home, but not for sale) How about the pensioner who accumulated 50 years of time tested tackle. And now that he has time to fish we are going to tell him he can, just leave your tackle box at home? Can you imagine the cost of replacing 10 tungsten jigs every time you went fishing? Is lead something everyone should be aware of, definitly! Should manufactures continue to explore (cost effective) alternatives, definitly! But the solution is not quite as simple here.
I always enjoy the passion these debates bring to the table! But lets not get mad at each other for something we all still legally can do, disagree.

One last thing I'd like to mention. Whether I agree or disagree with a singular idea dosn't make me a part of any 'group'!

I should probably let everyone know, "I'm not giving up my jigs no matter who tell's me too!"

Good fishing to all of you!

[nofearengineer]

I'm with Charlton Heston on this one...

They can have my lead...when they pry it from my cold, dead hands.

This isn't about lead. This is about an anti-hunting, anti-fishing mentality. If we were using limestone gravel as sinkers, they would have found a reason to ban that. These people will never stop constantly trying to erode our rights. There is a slippery slope, and we have been backsliding for many decades.

I don't know about you, but I haven't lost too many sinkers in 6 inches of water. Unless those loons are putting on scuba tanks and feeding on the bottom of the lake, they're not ingesting any lead sinkers. And the lead certainly isn't climbing back up the banks of the lake.

[lilmule]

Have to agree its designed to limit hunting and fishing,if such were passed no lead shot at all,currently just in say waterfowling.My old 1860 shotgun with damascus barrels would be a wall ornament.
Have (fishing)some sinkers is all but want to continue using.
As for assault weapons ban has that stopped the use of such by criminals no just by you,and in some states owing an ak semi auto varient is an assault weapon.
Other nations(switzerland) have no such bans on full auto and actually have less violent acts committed with them due to everyone owns one.
Laws can be gotten around and are even more so by those with evil in mind,full auto sear isnt illegal providing it isnt installed,23 mm is a grenade launcher,37mm is a flare gun.
With mfg even making two part shells so whats in the front doesnt have to be a flare,isnt generally illegal providing front isnt attached to back,but generally speaking on the same shelf handy so to speak.
We have become a nation of laws so intense it takes a pack of lawyers to figure out what they mean.
The trick is however not to make more but less.

[bassboogieman]

I think your reference to Mr Heston is his quote regarding his guns. His quote reguarding his lead was more on the line - "when they pull it from your cold dead body" and I totally agree.

Banning lead will not prevent fishing. It will stop the do-it-yourselfer's from pouring their own jigs, sinkers, etc. Which may evently cause them to stop fishing as part of thier enjoyment of the pasttime has been taken from them for no good reason. The least impact felt by a lead ban for fishing will be upon the individual fisherman.

Other than tungston nothing serves as well for weight than lead, but the DIY guys can't melt and pour tungston, or brass, or steel. Not only does that eliminate the little guy trying to make his own sinkers, it directly and adversly effects the business owners that produce the melting pots, molds, paint, etc. and tackle shops (big stores and mom & pop) that sell those products. There really is no substitue for lead for the DIY guys, unlike shot used in hunting or non-hunting shooting sports. You'll note - lead has not been banned for use in rimfire or centerfire cartridges or for the black powder shooters.

Again, engage your brain for one minute - these groups could give a stale, moldy piece of rat crap about lead - that should be immediately obvious to any one that wets a line. If you understand the lead shot ban and how it applies to ingestion by water fowl, that argument cannot be similiarly applied regarding fishing, and this and other groups seeking a lead ban are using that argument as their foundation. It's apples and oranges.

[Dogmatic]

I'm not going to bore you with anymore long diatribes on this topic, you all have Google and can do your own research, but just don't say it doesn't happen...

[MississippiBoy]

Originally Posted by Dogmatic

I'm not going to bore you with anymore long diatribes on this topic, you all have Google and can do your own research, but just don't say it doesn't happen...

So, what do you use for weights? And what are your spinnerbaits, swimjigs, and regular jigs made out of?

[Dogmatic]

I only fish crankbaits, swimbaits, T-rigs, and C-rigs with tungsten...

[nofearengineer]

Dogmatic,

Last week I saw a duck who had been run over on the highway.

I'm curious as to which you think should be banned first: cars, highways, or ducks.

[Dogmatic]

@NFE, You have it for dinner?

[Infidel]

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

I'm with Charlton Heston on this one...

They can have my lead...when they pry it from my cold, dead hands.

This isn't about lead. This is about an anti-hunting, anti-fishing mentality.

I think it is about choking the government with BS and wasting tax money in order to drive us into economic chaos. The left keeps coming up with increasingly insane arguments, backed by equally insane demands that the government needs to regulate nearly everything under the sun. This unnecessary BS costs us increasing billions of dollars a year, and it is virtually all complete BS.

Politicians who push this much crap usually can not stay in office, so they go through state and federal agencies, who put in place "regulations". These "regulations" have the effect of law, thus we have legislation, and taxation without representation. We should demand the repeal of all such regulations, and demand that only the Congress, who we can fire, should be able to pass laws, even under the label of "regulations".

I am not saying the people on both sides of the isle push this type of thing, but the left has perfected it into a new art form. YMMV

[Infidel]

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

Dogmatic,

Last week I saw a duck who had been run over on the highway.

I'm curious as to which you think should be banned first: cars, highways, or ducks.

It's those #@%# lead weights they use to balance the tires, they always fly off and target ducks, we MUST ban them NOW!

[Infidel]

Originally Posted by Dogmatic

I'm not going to bore you with anymore long diatribes on this topic, you all have Google and can do your own research, but just don't say it doesn't happen...

That's right, that's how I take care of my competition! Those #@$% birds keep eating what should be my catch!