dead weight vs Line breaking weight

[Fish30114]

I am interested in views/facts/info regarding the actual breaking 'weight' of line vs dead weight. For example, if you have 10 lb test spooled up, could you actually reel up, or handline up a 10 lb dumbell? It seems that I get breakage well below rated line weight with a fish that is NOT flailing around a lot. I had a fish that I would have guessed at 5lbs 8oz max, probably right at 5lbs, and when trying to handline him up the last 6 vertical feet (was fishing off a bridge with about 6' of clearance over the water surface) the line popped about 4 feet above the fish/lure.

I have witnessed this often, so I am wondering bout the actual breaking weight of line vs rated line strength.

[Embrey]

no way id ever hand line a 5lb fish with 10 lb line...lol

[oglejust]

i wouldnt either but i have had a 3lb bass break 8lb mono, i just had his mouth out of the water getting ready to grab him, he shook and broke the line. kinda makes me hate light line but theres definetly a place for it. most of the time im using 14lb mono, ive only had 1 fish break the line and it was close to the crankbait, i assume the treble rubbed it and frayed it. with 14 i feel comfortable lifting a fish out of the water, never tryed it with a 5lber tho haha

[Flippin TN]

Sometime back i tried getting some idea of dead weight vs rating and it seems that I was using like 8 to 15 lb, 4 or 5 different lines and a fish scale. I tied on a hook using a Palomar knot and a loop on the opposite end with about 3' between the hook and a broom stick through the loop. Standing on the broom stick I hooked the scale and pulled until the line broke. I cant remember other than in the back of my mind the P-Line Flour didn't make rate, breaks were at the knot and I don't remember what lines I played with. I think I'll do it again and take some notes this time.I was looking more for a way to do the test and just didn't follow through. Maybe this week Ill try again. Seems most of the lines broke before reaching the rating. It would be worth another test. I think the fish scale made it easier to do a comparison but the actual accuracy might be misleading, but close.

[kennethdaysale]

Your observations notwithstanding, most lines are usually underated (often by 40-60+%).The really high-end lines will normally break very close to their rating.

[Flippin TN]

Originally Posted by kennethdaysale

Your observations notwithstanding, most lines are usually underated (often by 40-60+%).The really high-end lines will normally break very close to their rating.

Ken do you mean a line rated at 20# under rated by 50% would break at 30# or 10#?

If it breaks at 10# I think it would have been overrated and if it broke at 30# I'd say under rated?

Are you thinking most line would tend to break before the advertised weight rating?

Probably I'm thinking the rating may be not much more than a guide line to some degree. Imagine a BIG 40# Stripper running in deep water 60' with a lot of line in the water 120 yds does the weight the line experiences increase from drag through the water? There is probably a lot of engineering that goes into the weight rating system. Just pondering.

If you were fishing for 40# Strippers in 60' of water trolling at 2 knots with 120 yds of line out what line rating would normally be used?

[oglejust]

he meant over rated.. as in rated more than they hold

[Dogmatic]

From what I understand, line is under-rated, the amount it is under-rated is dependent on the manufacturer and line type, 30# line typically breaking at 35#-40#(rated "under" it's actual breaking strength, thus "under-rated"). I only know this from watching North American Fishing's "knot wars" (http://video.fishingclub.com/pages/knot-wars), granted it's testing knots, but you typically see line, or knot snapping well after the line ratings they are using.

[Flippin TN]

thanks for the link interesting knots some of which Ive never heard of . I think the winner was the "Kings Sling Loop" for crankbaits. Eay to tie. Maybe a little too much waste if your tying frequently, it could burn up some leader in a hurry but its a really fast easy loop to tie. I like it.

[BigBassin144]

Most line are underrated. It's obvious as to why. A company would rather have people claiming how their 10lb line breaks at 12lbs than complaining about 10lb line that breaks at 8lbs. However, I don't think they are underrated by nearly 40-60% in the majority of cases. Often times, I company will rate a line by diameter rather than the breaking strength. So if a like that breaks at 14lbs is similar in diameter to many 10lb lines, it'll get a 10lb rating.

However, I guess as to why your line broke has nothing to do with the line break strength. I would bet that your line was damaged in some way. Either nicked, kinked, or scratched up by something abrasive. This will reduce breaking strength a lot, especially in many fluorocarbon lines.

BB

[screwballl]

Remember, there is a difference comparing dead weight with stress/shock weight. Various factors come into play including how the line handles the weight under water. Any little knick, kink, bad knot or line damage can severely reduce its capacity.

If a 5 lb fish pulls on the line enough, it will induce a shock weight value that can easily exceed the 10lb line rating. This is generally why you stick with at least 15-20lb line, except in very specific uses, like finesse fishing where you may be using 8 lb line with a 6lb fish but you also spend an hour getting that fish in to keep it from breaking the line.

This is why I stick with 10-12 lb. copoly, and 20-30 lb. braid. Never had a fish break the line that wasn't my fault.

[Dogmatic]

Originally Posted by Flippin TN

thanks for the link interesting knots some of which Ive never heard of . I think the winner was the "Kings Sling Loop" for crankbaits. Eay to tie. Maybe a little too much waste if your tying frequently, it could burn up some leader in a hurry but its a really fast easy loop to tie. I like it.

I watched those "knot Wars" over and over, season to season, and have never figured out what knot was the over-all "winner", they keep changing it out, from straight up knots, to snell knots, to leader knots...I think I will stick to my palomar, and double uni.

[gonefishin3]

I think the lines these days are really good. I was dropshotting with 6lb line and was flipping them in the boat oh up to about 2.5lbs (smallmouth) you just have to swing them with momentum not just dead weight them.. I don't go heavier than about 12 or 15 lb here its funner to finesse the fish.. my buddy was useing 4lb line but he is a nut sometimes... so in my opinion lines are underated to their potential. Did I word that correctly?

[Flippin TN]

Originally Posted by Dogmatic

I watched those "knot Wars" over and over, season to season, and have never figured out what knot was the over-all "winner", they keep changing it out, from straight up knots, to snell knots, to leader knots...I think I will stick to my palomar, and double uni.

I agree the "winner" was somewhat elusive. I come away with the thought there was a winner for the various needs like loops, line to line sort of thing. and like your feelin hard to go wrong with the Palomar and the Uni's

[kennethdaysale]

Originally Posted by Flippin TN

Ken do you mean a line rated at 20# under rated by 50% would break at 30# or 10#? 30#

If it breaks at 10# I think it would have been overrated and if it broke at 30# I'd say under rated?

Are you thinking most line would tend to break before the advertised weight rating?

Probably I'm thinking the rating may be not much more than a guide line to some degree. Imagine a BIG 40# Stripper running in deep water 60' with a lot of line in the water 120 yds does the weight the line experiences increase from drag through the water? There is probably a lot of engineering that goes into the weight rating system. Just pondering.

If you were fishing for 40# Strippers in 60' of water trolling at 2 knots with 120 yds of line out what line rating would normally be used?

well if I was fishing in 100' of wide open water(zero snags) with premium tackle I might use 14#-17# just for the fun of it! If I was fishing in 65' of real snaggy water with questionable gear I might use 65#+ braid.

[Fish30114]

interesting feedback folks....I can say I don't know, but I feel that breaking weight--the actual weight at which the line breaks, is different from line rating--and I would have guessed higher before this year. I have spent a lot more time than normal fishing off of a bridge, and having to get the fish up the 6' that the bridge clears the water. I don't have a net that long. I have had a LOT of fish that I know were less in weight than the line rating, break the line when pulling them up. I will say that SOME of the time my line may have been damaged, but I am absolutely certain, that it was NOT a lot of the time. I respool frequently, and I am sure of the fact that a lot of times it wasn't damged, when the break occured.

Keep the feedback coming!

[BigBassin144]

Out of curiosity, what line (brand, line, and lb test) are you using?

BB

[kennethdaysale]

Hey Fish.....If you want to release those fish you need to invest in a net, if you want to keep them go with a gaff. At this point the line break rating is mute.

[BigBassin144]

Originally Posted by kennethdaysale

Hey Fish.....If you want to release those fish you need to invest in a net, if you want to keep them go with a gaff. At this point the line break rating is mute.

I don't think a gaff is necessary at all. A net makes more sense either way. I'm sure they'll be plenty of people upset if they witness someone gaffing fish in a public fishing area.

BB

[Fish30114]

Kenneth, you are correct, and I just ordered a net that will be long enough just the other day. And I agree with you as well BigBassin, even if you're gonna keep em, gaffing fish where non-fish folks see it is probably not the best PR for the sport--I am purely a catch and release guy--sometimes with some detailed measuring going on in between!


The two lines I have had break in this fashion are Suffix Siege (which I have found to be very strong typically) in 10 & 14 lb test, and P-line Flourclear, in 10 & 12 lb test.

I am thinking of doing some testing with a 1" dowel and some line rolled up onto it, and then tying a loop knot of some type onto some various weighted dumbells....my back deck sits 10' above ground--may be interesting.

One thing I have been wondering about is: does your line become more succeptable to breakage in a manner such as I have described if you have made an agressive hook set against these somewhat heavier fish, and thereby stressing you line??

[kennethdaysale]

Originally Posted by BigBassin144

I don't think a gaff is necessary at all. A net makes more sense either way. I'm sure they'll be plenty of people upset if they witness someone gaffing fish in a public fishing area.

BB

I really only typed in " gaff " because if you're going to kill a fish the method you use to end their miserable little lives is just a matter of convenience and personal preference. If the "people" that are watching get "upset" I would just advise them to look away or leave the area. If these people could see those fish slowly choking on a stringer impaled through their gills or slowly suffocating in a 5 gallon bucket or slowly freezing to death in a cooler full of ice they might tip their hat to the ole gaff. BTW just for clarity I don't and never have owned a gaff and haven't intentionally killed a LMB in 30+ yrs, its just that tip toeing around for a bunch of squeemish onlookers just isn't the way to roll IMO.

[kennethdaysale]

Originally Posted by Fish30114

One thing I have been wondering about is: does your line become more succeptable to breakage in a manner such as I have described if you have made an agressive hook set against these somewhat heavier fish, and thereby stressing you line??

I don't know about the hard hookset but I do know that back when mono was the only game in town we would tie the end to the truck bumper and walk off a hundred yards or so and s t r e t c h on it before we launched the boat. This seemed to help and not hurt.