Understanding bilge

Abbeysdad · 08-18-09, 03:24 PM

I made a point to run the bilge pump on the last leg to the dock and I know it pumped dry. But when I got home and pulled the plug, a fair amount (like a gallon or two) of water came pouring out. Now I didn't take on any water on the deck and the only point of entry I can see is the access panel (over the bilge pump) in the rear just ahead of the transom (e.g if I slow quickly and the seal is bad).
I'm wondering if the water getting in here or perhaps somewhere else, and can it get trapped up front somehow?
Advice appreciated on what I should do, if anything.

nofearengineer · 08-18-09, 04:10 PM

The purpose of the bilge pump isn't to empty your hull bone dry. It's to keep you from sinking if you take a wave over the bow or spring a leak. The pump pickup, for obvious reasons, can't be perfectly on the bottom of the hull. IT would have to be below the hull, and sticking into the water to accomplish that.

You still need to pull your bilge plug. Guess what? That will still leave a tiny little bit of water, unless you're really strong, and can tip your boat nose up.

I miss the bilge system we had in our aluminum runabout when I was a kid. Being a riveted boat, it always leaked a tiny bit, so when it got up to a noticable level, we would just pull the plug (it was on the inside of the boat, below a little hatch) and take off across the lake. The suction would empty the boat right out hehe. Who needs a bilge pump?

carolina-rig-01 · 08-18-09, 04:33 PM

don't worry about the water. like nofear said, the bilge pump will pump most of the water out but it's not going to empty it totally. on my boat if i leave the plug out while driving home the rest of the water drains out as long as i don't have a lot of water in the bilge. if the ramp is slow then you can leave it parked up hill on the ramp when you take out and the rest of the water will drain, but don't block the ramp if other people are trying to use it.

Abbeysdad · 08-18-09, 04:52 PM

I'm trying to figure out 1) where so much water is getting in and 2) How 1-2 gallons could still be trapped, even after the bilge is pumped 'dry'.

Yes, I realize the bilge can't be totally dry, but the pump was running and I was on a slope - no way there should be 1-2 gallons of water unless it's getting trapped somewhere.

nofearengineer · 08-18-09, 05:37 PM

Is it a couple of gallons every outing? I would only notice that much if I didn't pull my plug for a few trips. The occasional splash, a tipped over ice-melted cooler, etc.

If you're getting that much every trip, you're either getting a lot of condensation, which is possible if you're hitting a very cold lake after keeping the boat in a warm place, or you may indeed have a leak.

Your boat is fiberglass, right? I wouldn't know the first thing about finding a leak in fiberglass, but I bet someone here does.

carolina-rig-01 · 08-18-09, 08:59 PM

i doubt it's a leak. but if it is then i would check the hoses to the livewells, seen them cause problems before and it would be easy to check out.

1FASTLASER · 08-19-09, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carolina-rig-01

i doubt it's a leak. but if it is then i would check the hoses to the livewells, seen them cause problems before and it would be easy to check out.

My ole buddie Carolina is right on the money. Glass boats that have livewells and coolers bult in have points of entry fer water to be let in or out. Seals get loose,bad or whatever as well as hoses. Check them out. Also a quick shutdown will allow some wash over the transom, and trust me ANY wash will result in that much or more water.
As far as water being trapped....yes that happens........why it happens>>that the manufacturers fault. Somewhere during construction someone didnt do there job correctly. ALL water should be channeled to the center of the boat so that it can exit the rear of the boat. I have seen way to many times where this was the case and it caused damage that reared its ugly head way down the line AFTER warranty expired. GET MY DRIFT.

Randy · 08-19-09, 06:39 AM

Last year my Ranger kept taking on water. Couldn't find where it was comming in at. I put the water hose inside the hull at home, put a few gallons in it . Still couldn't find it. Replaced all of the hoses in the live well system ( only a total of about 6 feet of garden hose ) Still could not find it. Finally took the fitting off that was hooked to the livewell hose . Whalah, it was broke right behing the big plastic nut that tightens it to the hull. Took about 3 months to find it . One thing for sure , I know exactly how my livewell hoses are connected and I'm 100 % sure it doesn't leak now. I think the hoses and clamps cost around 10 bucks and the fitting was around 15 bucks. Not very expensive of a fix, just took some digging to find the leak.

Abbeysdad · 08-19-09, 09:06 AM

Yes it seems to be about 1-2 gallons drain out (every outing) back home after I pull the plug, even if I use the bilge pump in the final leg of the outing.
I was thinking that when I slow quickly and water comes over the transom, most exits the two holes in the transom, but some may invade through the round access panel (access to the bilge pump?) back there (need to pull that apart [not sure how] and/or test for seal). I'm thinking some of this bilge water may slosh forward and get temporarily trapped somewhere up front (explaining why the bilge area by the pump appears empty after I pull it out of the water, but so much water comes out when I pull the plug at home)?

I haven't used the live well yet, but didn't even think about the port/connection for the water inlet to it - Thanks, I'll check that too.

Nater1300 · 08-19-09, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

I miss the bilge system we had in our aluminum runabout when I was a kid. Being a riveted boat, it always leaked a tiny bit, so when it got up to a noticable level, we would just pull the plug (it was on the inside of the boat, below a little hatch) and take off across the lake. The suction would empty the boat right out hehe. Who needs a bilge pump?

I'm with ya on that one nofear

That was always the most fun after a good rain. You could get her pretty dry...as long as you remembered to put the plug back in before you stopped

Abbeysdad · 08-19-09, 01:56 PM

Kinda funny - years ago we rented a small aluminum motor boat on Lake George - it had rained the day before and there was an inch or more of water in the boat. The fella said, when you get it up to speed just pull that plug back there. I just nodded thinking the last thing I want is a hole in the bottom of a boat on a lake. I thought twice about it, then did it and of course the water just got sucked out .... still, I felt better once the plug was back in there!

LOL

bassintom · 08-19-09, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

I miss the bilge system we had in our aluminum runabout when I was a kid. Being a riveted boat, it always leaked a tiny bit, so when it got up to a noticable level, we would just pull the plug (it was on the inside of the boat, below a little hatch) and take off across the lake. The suction would empty the boat right out hehe. Who needs a bilge pump?

I used to do that with my old 14' duranautic shallow vee.

nofearengineer · 08-19-09, 04:08 PM

Ya gotta love good ol' Bernouilli.

Abbeysdad · 08-19-09, 11:42 PM

I think I got it - I popped the access panel behind the transom (above the bilge pump). What was left of the brittle (dry rot) O-ring seal just fell apart. Have to see where I can replace it.

http://www.tempress.com/store/index.php?cPath=12_13_142

Gotta look for this locally since they want $14 to ship a $1.50 o-ring.

lol

Abbeysdad · 08-29-09, 01:31 AM

Well took her out today after sealing the deck plate and on return little/no water in the bilge! yea

Abbeysdad · 09-15-09, 08:47 AM

Famous last words...took her out on Sunday and when I got back home and pulled the plug a couple of gallons of water came out! Now I think the deck plate is well sealed, so now I have to suspect the (below waterline) ports for the live well (intake and drain).
I wish they weren't such a bear to get to. Think I'll just pull them and seal with Marine silicone. Kinda odd - both ports are plastic, one appears to be secured on the inside, while the other is a threaded tube with a plastic nut on the outside. Seems odd that both ports aren't the same?

Randy · 09-15-09, 01:00 PM

Once again, I went thru exactly what your going thru. Took the inlet fitting off the boat, below the water line, the hose that runs to the live well. That fitting was cracked at the end of the threads. Impossible to see untill I took it off. That fixed my problem. Never would have found it without taking it off. Good luck.

Abbeysdad · 09-16-09, 09:59 AM

Thanks Randy...well the mystery continues. I started to pull the ports but found the one with the exposed 'NUT' (the pump on the other side) to be stubborn, so I stopped, scratched my head and took a different approach. I thought if water was leaking around either (live well-pump in/drain out) port, it should leak out if I filled the bilge with water so that the hoses/fittings were submerged - so I filled the bilge, waited and watched and not a drop leaked out. So I'm convinced that these ports are fine as well as the hose connections to them.
I resealed the pry off deck plate with marine grade silicone (ran a bead around the inside lip to make a gasket) and guess I will just keep a watchful eye on the bilge as I can't see any other likely points of entry failing water on the deck.

08-18-09, 03:24 PM	#1
Abbeysdad BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Central NY - Finger Lakes Posts: 1,307	Understanding bilge I made a point to run the bilge pump on the last leg to the dock and I know it pumped dry. But when I got home and pulled the plug, a fair amount (like a gallon or two) of water came pouring out. Now I didn't take on any water on the deck and the only point of entry I can see is the access panel (over the bilge pump) in the rear just ahead of the transom (e.g if I slow quickly and the seal is bad). I'm wondering if the water getting in here or perhaps somewhere else, and can it get trapped up front somehow? Advice appreciated on what I should do, if anything.

08-18-09, 04:10 PM	#2
nofearengineer BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southwest IN Posts: 5,630	The purpose of the bilge pump isn't to empty your hull bone dry. It's to keep you from sinking if you take a wave over the bow or spring a leak. The pump pickup, for obvious reasons, can't be perfectly on the bottom of the hull. IT would have to be below the hull, and sticking into the water to accomplish that. You still need to pull your bilge plug. Guess what? That will still leave a tiny little bit of water, unless you're really strong, and can tip your boat nose up. I miss the bilge system we had in our aluminum runabout when I was a kid. Being a riveted boat, it always leaked a tiny bit, so when it got up to a noticable level, we would just pull the plug (it was on the inside of the boat, below a little hatch) and take off across the lake. The suction would empty the boat right out hehe. Who needs a bilge pump? __________________ Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.

08-18-09, 04:33 PM	#3
carolina-rig-01 BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Webb City, MO Posts: 6,387	don't worry about the water. like nofear said, the bilge pump will pump most of the water out but it's not going to empty it totally. on my boat if i leave the plug out while driving home the rest of the water drains out as long as i don't have a lot of water in the bilge. if the ramp is slow then you can leave it parked up hill on the ramp when you take out and the rest of the water will drain, but don't block the ramp if other people are trying to use it. __________________ You only live once. But if you do it right, once is enough.

08-18-09, 05:37 PM	#5
nofearengineer BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southwest IN Posts: 5,630	Is it a couple of gallons every outing? I would only notice that much if I didn't pull my plug for a few trips. The occasional splash, a tipped over ice-melted cooler, etc. If you're getting that much every trip, you're either getting a lot of condensation, which is possible if you're hitting a very cold lake after keeping the boat in a warm place, or you may indeed have a leak. Your boat is fiberglass, right? I wouldn't know the first thing about finding a leak in fiberglass, but I bet someone here does. __________________ Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.

08-18-09, 08:59 PM	#6
carolina-rig-01 BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Webb City, MO Posts: 6,387	i doubt it's a leak. but if it is then i would check the hoses to the livewells, seen them cause problems before and it would be easy to check out. __________________ You only live once. But if you do it right, once is enough.

08-18-09, 04:52 PM	#4
Abbeysdad BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Central NY - Finger Lakes Posts: 1,307	I'm trying to figure out 1) where so much water is getting in and 2) How 1-2 gallons could still be trapped, even after the bilge is pumped 'dry'. Yes, I realize the bilge can't be totally dry, but the pump was running and I was on a slope - no way there should be 1-2 gallons of water unless it's getting trapped somewhere.

08-19-09, 06:39 AM	#8
Randy BassFishin.Com Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Tampa , Fl Posts: 71	Last year my Ranger kept taking on water. Couldn't find where it was comming in at. I put the water hose inside the hull at home, put a few gallons in it . Still couldn't find it. Replaced all of the hoses in the live well system ( only a total of about 6 feet of garden hose ) Still could not find it. Finally took the fitting off that was hooked to the livewell hose . Whalah, it was broke right behing the big plastic nut that tightens it to the hull. Took about 3 months to find it . One thing for sure , I know exactly how my livewell hoses are connected and I'm 100 % sure it doesn't leak now. I think the hoses and clamps cost around 10 bucks and the fitting was around 15 bucks. Not very expensive of a fix, just took some digging to find the leak.

08-19-09, 09:06 AM	#9
Abbeysdad BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Central NY - Finger Lakes Posts: 1,307	Yes it seems to be about 1-2 gallons drain out (every outing) back home after I pull the plug, even if I use the bilge pump in the final leg of the outing. I was thinking that when I slow quickly and water comes over the transom, most exits the two holes in the transom, but some may invade through the round access panel (access to the bilge pump?) back there (need to pull that apart [not sure how] and/or test for seal). I'm thinking some of this bilge water may slosh forward and get temporarily trapped somewhere up front (explaining why the bilge area by the pump appears empty after I pull it out of the water, but so much water comes out when I pull the plug at home)? I haven't used the live well yet, but didn't even think about the port/connection for the water inlet to it - Thanks, I'll check that too.

08-19-09, 01:56 PM	#11
Abbeysdad BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Central NY - Finger Lakes Posts: 1,307	Kinda funny - years ago we rented a small aluminum motor boat on Lake George - it had rained the day before and there was an inch or more of water in the boat. The fella said, when you get it up to speed just pull that plug back there. I just nodded thinking the last thing I want is a hole in the bottom of a boat on a lake. I thought twice about it, then did it and of course the water just got sucked out .... still, I felt better once the plug was back in there! LOL

08-19-09, 04:08 PM	#13
nofearengineer BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southwest IN Posts: 5,630	Ya gotta love good ol' Bernouilli. __________________ Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.

08-19-09, 11:42 PM	#14
Abbeysdad BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Central NY - Finger Lakes Posts: 1,307	I think I got it - I popped the access panel behind the transom (above the bilge pump). What was left of the brittle (dry rot) O-ring seal just fell apart. Have to see where I can replace it. http://www.tempress.com/store/index.php?cPath=12_13_142 Gotta look for this locally since they want $14 to ship a $1.50 o-ring. lol Last edited by Abbeysdad; 08-20-09 at 09:26 AM.

08-29-09, 01:31 AM	#15
Abbeysdad BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Central NY - Finger Lakes Posts: 1,307	Well took her out today after sealing the deck plate and on return little/no water in the bilge! yea

09-15-09, 08:47 AM	#16
Abbeysdad BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Central NY - Finger Lakes Posts: 1,307	Famous last words...took her out on Sunday and when I got back home and pulled the plug a couple of gallons of water came out! Now I think the deck plate is well sealed, so now I have to suspect the (below waterline) ports for the live well (intake and drain). I wish they weren't such a bear to get to. Think I'll just pull them and seal with Marine silicone. Kinda odd - both ports are plastic, one appears to be secured on the inside, while the other is a threaded tube with a plastic nut on the outside. Seems odd that both ports aren't the same?

09-15-09, 01:00 PM	#17
Randy BassFishin.Com Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Tampa , Fl Posts: 71	Once again, I went thru exactly what your going thru. Took the inlet fitting off the boat, below the water line, the hose that runs to the live well. That fitting was cracked at the end of the threads. Impossible to see untill I took it off. That fixed my problem. Never would have found it without taking it off. Good luck.

09-16-09, 09:59 AM	#18
Abbeysdad BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Central NY - Finger Lakes Posts: 1,307	Thanks Randy...well the mystery continues. I started to pull the ports but found the one with the exposed 'NUT' (the pump on the other side) to be stubborn, so I stopped, scratched my head and took a different approach. I thought if water was leaking around either (live well-pump in/drain out) port, it should leak out if I filled the bilge with water so that the hoses/fittings were submerged - so I filled the bilge, waited and watched and not a drop leaked out. So I'm convinced that these ports are fine as well as the hose connections to them. I resealed the pry off deck plate with marine grade silicone (ran a bead around the inside lip to make a gasket) and guess I will just keep a watchful eye on the bilge as I can't see any other likely points of entry failing water on the deck.

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