Braid(s)

[lunker-lander]

After beginning to think about how I want my new Frog Stik to be picture-perfect, I have decided on the rod, a St.Croix Legend Tournament Bass "Slop-N-Frog", almost decided on the reel and are speechless on the line. I know I need braid for froggin' - but how heavy, what brand, how much?

I will mainly be fishing in floating pads, maidencane, hyacinth, and milfoil. Nothin' too bad, nothin' too easy though either... So, I was thinking to start with something not too big, as I have never used braid. Something like 20-35 pound test. Power Pro? Fireline? Suffix? Need tips!!!

I also plan to use other topwaters like Sammy's, Jimmy's, Spook's, buzzbaits, etc. Will fish see the braid floating on the surface when you are using twitch baits like Spook's? Does braid even float? Again, need tips!!!

In consideration...
-LL-

[Bob Smith]

Braid would be good choice for that application, just be careful and not over react with the blowup on the frog. You set the hook too fast with braid and it will immediately snatch the frog away from the fish (that old adage of waiting until you feel the fish applies!!). With that said, I would suggest the pound range you mentioned. The brand differences come down to a matter of "opinions" for the most part. My own preference has been Power Pro (moss green) and Tuff Line. I like the roundness and smoothness of both of these lines. I always spool about 1/3 the spool with a mono backing then double-uni knot the braid onto that. The other thing I NEVER EVER do is tighten my drag down too tight with Braid! Too many guys complain about braid breaking on the hookset, and it will if the drag is too tight. You don't need a tight drag with braid, when you set the hook you should hear the reel "ziip". Between the super sharp hooks these days and the lack of stretch in the braid believe me, you will get maximum hook penetration!

[flfireman]

Yes and Yes with the above. Most of mine are all spooled in 35 PP, I do have one at 20.

[senko]

I hardly ever use frogs so I don't know much about them and how to use them but I would use about 20 lb. PP with perhaps a mono leader on the clear side so it would float a little(I'm not sure this will even work so correct me if I'm wrong).

[lunker-lander]

Originally Posted by flfireman

Yes and Yes with the above. Most of mine are all spooled in 35 PP, I do have one at 20.

"Yes and Yes" as in the fish will see it? It does float?

-LL-

[senko]

Originally Posted by lunker-lander

"Yes and Yes" as in the fish will see it? It does float?

-LL-

When using a buzzbait I don't think I'd be worried about the bass seeing the line if they are pissed enough to hit a noisy, squeaky buzzbait, but thats just a buzzbait.

[lunker-lander]

What about something like a Spook or Jimmy where the bait sits for some time?

-LL-

[senko]

I don't know about that too much and don't wanna miss-lead you so i'm goin to leave that to the more experienced members

[Bob Smith]

On top water baits line visibility is seldom an issue, in fact many pros use a larger diameter line that floats better to help the action of the bait. Low vis line like flouro-carbon will sink and tends to pull the front of the bait down in the water when stopped. This mutes the action of the bait in most cases (poppers don't slurp or spit as well, walking type baits tend to dip and foul). If the bass in your area are that sensitive to visibility you should probably try fly fishing.

[lunker-lander]

LOL. I just might have to try that!

I was looking at the reviews over Spiderwire Ultracast on Cabela's and it doesn't look too bad. Have any of you guys had a bad, if at all, experience with this line? Does it too have a small braid:mono ration as does Power Pro?

Thanks for all the other tips so far...

-LL-

[Bender]

I like PowerPro. I tried Fireline Crystal this year and it is good also, but not round and soft like PP. The only issues I have had with PP are the really thin ones (<14) backlash too easily on baitcasters and I don't need them much heavier here. I have found that the 20lb works best for me. It will cut through most anything around here and lets you horse a fish out of anywhere.
Edit: for topwater I suggest mono all the way. It floats well and it has the stretch required not to loose a fish on a blowup. It kind of delays your reaction even if you don't.

[WallStreetAmigo]

I also use power pro in 20lb test for frogs. I have had good luck using this line even with poppers, soft plastics, and spinnerbaits. Please note that I fish extremely clear waters and it has not affected my success rate much from a visibility standpoint. If you can learn the patience to feel for the weight of the fish before setting the hook on frogs, the skill will serve you well in other areas. Because PP floats and does not have memory, it preserves the natural action of poppers, etc, and produces great hooksets, but only if you can hold back on crossing their eyes on the hookset. If you have good sharp hooks and wait to feel the weight of the fish on a topwater, whether it is a frog or a popper, it usually only takes a sharp flick of the wrist to get a good hookset with PP.

Note - you have to change your technique for popping a topwater with no stretch line.

[dodgeguy]

i wouldn't use a braid under 50 lb.i suggest sufix 65 lb.the reason for the thicker braid is it won't digg into the spool.

[lunker-lander]

I don't know how big they grow 'em in Poughkeepsie, but here in Michigan, even for Southern Michigan, 65 pound braid is not needed. I mean, yes, you want a heavy line to horse 'em out, but there is nothing in Michigan(except maybe a tree)that 20-30LB braid will not handle. Anyway, 20-30LB will cast much farther than 65LB.

-LL-

[WallStreetAmigo]

I always spool some mono onto my reels and then attach the braid to it, since it is next to impossible to spool yourself on a bass. I used PP on two spinning reels all this year and had no problems with it digging into the spool. Of course that could be just me. With the clear water I fish, I think the small diameter of 20lb is helpful. I don't know if I could get away with 50 or 65lb just because I have to make longer casts and minimize line visibility on the clear water. Having said that, maybe I will spool up a larger test braid and see if it impacts these factors significantly. There's always room to learn.

[Bob Smith]

Originally Posted by WallStreetAmigo

I always spool some mono onto my reels and then attach the braid to it, since it is next to impossible to spool yourself on a bass. I used PP on two spinning reels all this year and had no problems with it digging into the spool. Of course that could be just me. With the clear water I fish, I think the small diameter of 20lb is helpful. I don't know if I could get away with 50 or 65lb just because I have to make longer casts and minimize line visibility on the clear water. Having said that, maybe I will spool up a larger test braid and see if it impacts these factors significantly. There's always room to learn.

I use 20 lb PP on my spinning reels also, especially on my drop Shot rigs, I fish with 7' 2" Shimano Crucial Drop shot rods and the Symmetre 2000 and 2500 rear drag reels. I have them spooled first with backup mono, then the PP, then uni-knot Seaguar 10 or 12 LB flouro-carbon. Never had the line bury in the reels and caught some pigs out of Lake Fork and other DFW area lakes. I use up to 50 LB PP on my C-rig and Jigging rods, and up to 50 lbs on my Super Fluke and Senko rigs. Just a matter of confidence with me, but down here in the south the Timber, Hydrilla, Milfoil, Reeds, Pads and other grasses can be hard on any line. When you get a fish on you had better be ready to go head to head with them or they get down into the trash and you will never get them out!

[lunker-lander]

Thanks Bob and WSA! With that said I may want to try 20LB according to Bob...

-LL-

[lizardsrule]

Originally Posted by Bob Smith

Braid would be good choice for that application, just be careful and not over react with the blowup on the frog. You set the hook too fast with braid and it will immediately snatch the frog away from the fish (that old adage of waiting until you feel the fish applies!!). With that said, I would suggest the pound range you mentioned. The brand differences come down to a matter of "opinions" for the most part. My own preference has been Power Pro (moss green) and Tuff Line. I like the roundness and smoothness of both of these lines. I always spool about 1/3 the spool with a mono backing then double-uni knot the braid onto that. The other thing I NEVER EVER do is tighten my drag down too tight with Braid! Too many guys complain about braid breaking on the hookset, and it will if the drag is too tight. You don't need a tight drag with braid, when you set the hook you should hear the reel "ziip". Between the super sharp hooks these days and the lack of stretch in the braid believe me, you will get maximum hook penetration!

Well I have to disagree on the line size here. It's froggin, and plus it's gonna be on a baitcaster, unless I'm missing something here. The 50lb Powerpro is the same diameter of 12lb mono, and I wouldn't put anything on a baitcaster less than that. I also believe that Suffix is truly a better briad IMO. I have sworn by Powerpro for years, and I still believe it to be a Superb line. However ever since I've given Suffix a very strong and durable workout for this summer, I have to say it is better than Powerpro IMHO. It also floats, so no matter what topwater application you are using, it will be fine(ie "The Pro's use higher test for better floating for topwater baits" I am also the opposite on the drag. I tighten it down, so a mule can't pull it out, when fishing weeds or slop, with frogs, or any single hook bait. With trebble baits, I do loosen it up quite a bit and play the fish quite a bit, more than I like actually. However these are things I've learned from "MY EXPERIENCES" bassing, and it's my personal preference as to how I would do it. LL, eventually you'll come to the conclusion, that what works for me, or anyone else for that matter is not neccesarily what works for you. And while we're on the subject, at this point in your fishing career, I would not buy a "FROGGING ROD". I would use the rod you already have, or perhaps a 7' Heavy rod that can work for pitching, worming, and other techniqes fine also. The frogging rods aren't very good IMO for anything except frogging, or flipping. Which by the way you can do with what you just recently bought.



Lizards

[BigBassin144]

LL, I went (against the adive of most of the people here who told me Power Pro) with BPS Excel Braid, It was ok, but the main thing I liked was that it has a special coating on it that makes it float a lot more than regular braid. I use 20lb for my general prupose and am going to use 40 for flippin. I also use 30lb when we go Musky fishing.

As for your Topwaters (sammy's jummy's spook's etc.) I would not use the same rod at all. Next spring i am getting a new rod and making my old Cabela's Fish Eagle II 7' ML rod into my topwater rod with 17lb mono (the 17lb mono came from Bill Dance). but IMO you definately need a lighter rod and line for Topwaters than you do for froggin'

BB

[WallStreetAmigo]

Originally Posted by lizardsrule

Well I have to disagree on the line size here. It's froggin, and plus it's gonna be on a baitcaster, unless I'm missing something here. The 50lb Powerpro is the same diameter of 12lb mono, and I wouldn't put anything on a baitcaster less than that. I also believe that Suffix is truly a better briad IMO. I have sworn by Powerpro for years, and I still believe it to be a Superb line. However ever since I've given Suffix a very strong and durable workout for this summer, I have to say it is better than Powerpro IMHO.


Lizards

Lizards, could you elaborate on why you wouldn't put less than that size on a baitcaster (I just bought my first baitcaster so I have zero experience with them).

Also, can you give the specific reasons why you think suffix is a better braid?

It's all about learning new ideas, so if you could elaborate that would be awesome.

WSA

[lizardsrule]

Originally Posted by WallStreetAmigo

Lizards, could you elaborate on why you wouldn't put less than that size on a baitcaster (I just bought my first baitcaster so I have zero experience with them).

Also, can you give the specific reasons why you think suffix is a better braid?

It's all about learning new ideas, so if you could elaborate that would be awesome.

WSA

Well OK. I happen to believe that a larger diameter line on baitcaster works better for all the applications, with one exception. That exception would be for cranking, only if you are wanting to get your cranks just a tad deeper, not much, but the thinner diameter can make a slight difference. A baitcaster is more for the heavy duty applications in my arsenal. If I want finesse, then I use a spinning real, IE drop shotting, shakey head. Not to say that a spinning rod doesn't or can't be used for heavy duty work. I use a spinning reel for weightless plastics, which where I fish is heavy duty, plus c-rigging. Now of course they make super small baitcasters, for lighter stuff, but I would'nt use them for tiny cranks or any of my finesses stuff. Very few people, except maybe WTL, use them, they aren't what I would consider standard issue. Now of course these are "MY OPINIONS", someone else can totally disagree with what I've stated, but I can only learn my opinions because of "MY EXPERIENCES" on the water fishing.

As for why I prefer Suffix. It is rounder, digs in less, and seems to stand up(more durable) than Powerpro. I believe do to the roundness, that stays with it, unlike PP, which can become flat, it casts better, and that's probably why it digs in less than Powerpro also. It is more exspensive, and I wish they sold it more in larger quantities, such as 1000 yrd spools or 1500 yrd spools, at more local places, but they don't. On-line, which adds more due to shipping is usually where you need to buy it, unless you have a Cabela's close by LOL. But I'm willing to pay the difference. As I already stated, I believe it outlasts Powerpro as well.

Lizards

[zooker]

me and power pro don't agree.. i use calcutta ultra braid. very limp it has that already brokin feel to it.. dam near impossable to see in bugs island or lake norman. among other places..

zooker

[Rebbasser]

Originally Posted by WallStreetAmigo

Lizards, could you elaborate on why you wouldn't put less than that size on a baitcaster (I just bought my first baitcaster so I have zero experience with them).



WSA

WSA, my reason is even simpler: 50 lb.braid has the same diameter as 12 lb mono, which is what I use on just about every rod not spooled with braid.

Originally Posted by lizardsrule

I have sworn by Powerpro for years, and I still believe it to be a Superb line. However ever since I've given Suffix a very strong and durable workout for this summer, I have to say it is better than Powerpro IMHO.

First dodgeguy and now Lizards. I may have to look into Suffix braid.

(Just an FYI for some of you new guys-there are several guys on this and other boards that if they recommend something I would use it without a second thought-Dodge and Lizards are two of those individuals. They won't steer you wrong)

[bassinbob]

One reason I use 50lb. braid is because I like to cast far back into the pads, etc. If you get a fish or snag it sometimes takes a lot of pulling to get either out. I tried Suffix this past year and like it. I also like PP and Spiderwire. One thing I noticed is that the PP breaks more than the other two even though it doesn't happen too often. But it takes a lot to break 50lb. braid.

[BigBassin144]

Originally Posted by bassinbob

One reason I use 50lb. braid is because I like to cast far back into the pads, etc. If you get a fish or snag it sometimes takes a lot of pulling to get either out. I tried Suffix this past year and like it. I also like PP and Spiderwire. One thing I noticed is that the PP breaks more than the other two even though it doesn't happen too often. But it takes a lot to break 50lb. braid.

I don't belive you need line that strong. I was thinking about using 40lb for flippin', but I've dicided on using nothing bigger than 30lb. When we were musky fishing, I accidentally casted my bait too far into the pads and got hung up. My dad's friend whose boat we go in was going to drive closer so I could unhook it. I said no. I ended up pulling the whole boat to the spot where I was hung up with 30lb braid.