Car touchup

[WTL]

As some know I have a 1969 Cadillac Fleetwood that I am slowly restoring.

It was repainted in '89 by the fellow who used to paint Elvis' cars, a real great deep black gloss paint job using enamel.

Problem is, its 20 years later and it has many scratches going through to primer.

I can't get it repainted.

And worst of all, I can't for the life of me get a paint that matches. Every black I have tried is lighter after sanding and buffing and polishing than the body enamel that was put on 20 years ago. In fact, the touched up areas after I sand look more dark grey.

Is there something I am missing here? The weird thing is if I dont sand the touchup, it looks good...sanding it is what lightens the color here. The car does not have clearcoat.

Any help?

[mont_lunker_hunter]

Just an idea, but some of your local schools or community type colleges with an automotive class may repaint it for free or cheap anyways. I know you may not want to allow amateurs to do it, but it may be worth checking out.

[bamabassman]

i agree with mont here wtl. find the high school trade school. you should only have to pay for the parts,paint etc that is needed. no pay for labor. and the kids are still learning too. so check it out real good before you commit.

[WTL]

I appreciate the advice, but I just couldnt let a student touch it. Actually one day I might repaint it all myself, but I'm not patient enough yet.


The thing I just cant figure is this touchup paint - why it would be the right color so long as it isnt polished or sanded.

I even polished it and sanded it smooth - to my eye - and the repainted areas were lighter, like dark slate colored with shine.

I'm using white turtle wax polish - do they make something finer? Could it be that the turtle wax polishes the old enamel enough to get the deep black, but that the new paint needs an even finer polish?

[bamabassman]

have you tried to use a clear coat after you sanded it? just a thought. i really don't know though.

[WTL]

I dont think selectivly clear coating just this one area would look good.. It didnt have one on the repaint, just wax. Tried a black wax, didnt help. It was painted with enamel. I've tried both testers gloss black and I went to an auto paint shop and they gave me the blackest they had. Still not black enough - and I dont get it, cause when you sand it its not black!

[bamabassman]

ya got me pal. i don't know what to tell ya. stumped,lol.

[Christopherkeene9]

What kind of automotive paint have you used? Acrylic enamel, laquer enamel (most likely what it was originally painted in and most likely not gonna be found)?

[crankybait]

I'm no expert in this... but these guys sure are...
http://airbrush.com/forums/
I go for the eye candy and a few tips, but they know their automotive painting down flat. I'm 100% positive someone there would be able to help you

[WTL]

All I know is that it was an enamel per my mother. It was done in 89.

The guy at the paint shop said he was giving me what he had and that what it was likely painted in was not available except in a gallon special order. That might help round it down, I know the word laquer was thrown around but the guy was confusing...really about as helpful as a handjob from a porcupine.

Thanks cranky, I will post the question on there later.

[JB]

wtl,
77
I've had a few old sports cars that the paint was faded just like the caddy.
I took some Macguires mirror glaze wax and rubbed the he77 out of it and the paint shined.
These were old cars too.

[Bender]

Or on the scratches maybe try Meguires Scratch X. Not sure how it would work on that paint though.

[WTL]

The scratches are way too deep and large...I'm talking through to primer easily. A couple were showing primer that was 1/8 inch or larger going for about a foot or so. It has to be touched up with paint, I know that.

[66KingFisher]

The problem is your ol caddy was most likely painted with lacquers......and to get those mile deep black paintjobs required many, many, coats of hand rubbed lacquer.....and when I say many coats i'm talking 50-60 coats all the way upto 100 coats was not uncommon for a custom show quality job done in those days.....therefore theres no way a little dab of todays touch up paints is gonna cover scratches that go all the way to primer without being seen.

Don't let the kids practice on it.....if it was mine, i'd try and find an old school painter that used to deal with lacs and ask his opinion.....if you going to airbrush.com to ask advice i'd only concider taking advice from one guy there.....he goes by the name "Doc Cyber".....he's an old school custom painter that knows his stuff and the only guy on that forum i'd trust for real knowledgeable info.

[WTL]

Its not the shine, its that the paint just aint dark enough.

I just went to walmart and bought a 3rd "all purpose black" touchup auto pen. I have a test piece of aluminum with the 3 paints and when they are done drying I will sand just as I have done on the body and we will see if this is any "blacker". I'm am so friggin OCD. This paint is killin me, lol.

My computer wont let me register to that airbrush board, but I will try again tonight on the work computer.

[66KingFisher]

I'm not talkin shine....i'm talkin depth....60 coats of black is darker than a couple coats from a touch up brush....not to mention black isn't always black.....in todays paints it can be brownish or even blueish in color. I do custom paintjobs on motorcycles and i'm always havin someone ask about touch ups for this scratch or that paint chip.....you can touch them up so's you don't see primer but your never, ever, gonna make that scratch or chip vanish using touch up paint.....sorry just isn't gonna happen.

[WTL]

Well, thats an answer. Thanks 66.

[BigBassin144]

I'll ask my dad what he thinks. I think this is one of those times I shouldn't give advice cause all I know about painting cars is that the paint we painted our car with was yellow.



BB

[kingfish]

WTl, years ago there was a paint by dupont called centari enamel. There were gloss hardeners to put in it. This could be what was used on your car. It made it harder so you could buff it out like lacquers without all the coats. I don't know it it is still avail. As for polishing I use 3m machine compound then go back with 3m's polishing compound to get out the swirl marks. These are much finer than the turtle wax products. don't think the old lacquers are avail.either. It is going to be very difficult to touch up and match with todays paints.

[kingfish]

wtl, I also start wet sanding with 600 grit, then 1000 then to 1500 or 2000 grit. Like BB said there is alot of sanding.

[OrygunBasser]

I guess I am about as old school as you can get and still be on my feet!

"If" your car was painted with the old regular enamel, it was not wet sanded and pollished. Enamels were just not hard enough for this. Also, this paint being older, there is always the chance that the out protective finish is gone. Espesially if it has been polished on with a machine more than one time.

The old enamels were what we called "Carbon Black". Not what we find out there today. Getting a touch up paint will be very difficult, but you might want to go to an Auto paint store and sak for a small bit of the black mixing color in a single stage paint of whatever they have. Single stage means that it does not have to have a catalist to dry completely. The mixing black will be the closest you will get to Carbon Black!

Kingfish, this barn find is for you!

They will not sell it for any price nor will they fix it!

1967 RS/SS Nuber maching and 100% complete!!!

[bamabassman]

ooooooohhhhhhhhh now ya done gone and done it.......... man kingfish ain't the only one that loves the ol maro's. i am looking for a 67-68 firebird for real. just a rolling body. no motor or tranny needed. but want the rest complete. know of one ? i HATE it when folks have something like that and WON'T fis it back up. or at least sell it to someone that will restore it.

[bassintom]

Just a thought but you might want to give black gelcoat touch up a try in some obscure location to see if that works.It comes in a small brush/bottle not too expensive and what the heck ,it might work.
I'm thinking the caddy was done with a clearcoat and you polished/sanded through the clear and into the base coat.Another thing you might want to try is sanding down a little inside the trunk somewhere buff it out and then clearcoating it.
Just thinking that back in '89 painting a car with enamel would be pretty rare.And if it was ,,I don't know an expensive caddy or something,you would most likely refinish it with lacquer then clear.
What do I know...anything is worth trying.That's what trunks are for.

[WTL]

It still has a great paint job if you take out a couple bad scratches. There is no fading or anything. No clearcoat. Doesnt have one.

Knowing how meticulous my grandfather was it does not shock me one bit that he would have it sent to the best painter in the region. Like I said, Mom says that the guy who repainted this used to custom paint Elvis Presley's Cadillacs. My grandfather also painted a 1960 cadillac as well, so he was definitely that particular.

The paint can be buffed as I have found, very well actually. The duplicolor universal black is not too bad, just a wee bit darker than the repaint so we were lighter and now we are darker. I was thinking of maybe getting a little more duplicolor in a lighter color and trying to mix it a bit lighter, but I'm not even sure if its worth the trouble. You wont see it unless you know where to look, problem is I know its there. Just hope the paint adheres for a good spell. Seems ok. There is just one real ding in the metal that drives me nuts too. But I reckon bondo would be a no-no for the car.

[bamabassman]

no wtl....do not put bondo on it till you bang out the dent ok? i ain't no body man. but the 70 charger i had years ago had an inch of the stuff all down the left (driver) side. took me over a month just to get it off. banged it out and helped a friend who was a body man redo it the right way. mostly i sanded,lol. man on a side note.......YOU BE PIMPIN BRO!!! hahahaha.