I am almost to pissed for words.

[bassboogieman]

Abount 90 minutes ago it clouded up and cooled down about 10 degrees so out to mow thw lawn I went, then the rain came so I can't mow. I'm a little hungry and I haven't had an order of McDonald fries in a couple months, so I hop into my two week old Durango and off to McDonalds which is just a couple miles up the road.

I'm waiting in the drive through to place an order when this damm beat up Ford Expedition backs out of a parking space and right into the front of my car. I am freakin' livid, this kid gets out all appoligetic and crap so I ask for his paperwork - GUESS WHAT? No driver's license, no registration and no insurance - I really wanted to pop his ***. I left the house without my cell phone (I was going to mow so I don't take it outside) so another kid in the car has one, so I tell him to dial 911 and get me a cop - he says no, he only got a few minutes left on his cell. Now I want to drag him out of the car and pop his ***.

Breathe... I tell this POS to either call a cop or I go home and get my phone and report his tag number to pollice for a hit and run. The phone is dialed. So we wait 1/2 hour for a State police car to pull in. I give him my paperwork, the kid of course has none. So the officer tells me the bad news. They evidently are "nomads" (his word), the kid did not have a driver's license, probably no insurance and no registration in hand (although supposedly the mother has it). Now the real kick in the *** that has me really steamed - it was on private property, so the cop can't even write a citation on the kid for no license. He just had to make a call and have a relative come to the parking lot and drive the vehicle off the property.

So, I pay for insurance, maintain my driver's license, and carry all my paperwork in the car. The POS that hit me, doesn't have any of that, which is required by law, and he goes away none the worse for the incident, and I have a basketball sized dent in the front end, the hood is sprung, and the moulding inside the left front wheel well is out of alignment. I'm guessing this will be a grand or better in damage, and the kid don't so much as get a wrist slap - certainly HIS insurance won't go up, BECAUSE THE SOB DOESN't BUY IT. My car is two freakin' weeks old and will now spend a few days in the body shop.

Something just isn't right about the damn laws in this Country only being tough on the supposedly "law abiding citizens" and the freakin' migrant alien SOB's just go on not doing the right thing and getting away with it. No wonder my insurance costs are high - I pay for myself and dipsh!ts like the guy who hit me.

[keithdog]

I can feel your anger Bruce. I'd be livid!!! I'm sick and tired of the BS we as Americans have to put up with for playing by the rules. Thats kid should have been thrown into jail for opperating a vehicle without a license or insurance. THAT should be the law! Hopefully your insurance company will be able to settle the score, and take care of your repairs without additional cost to you. In the meantime, do you know a guy named Tiny who likes busting up cars and bones???

[bcklash]

Breathe Bruce, then smack his ding-dang azz. This BS and there is no sense in it. Hope it comes out like new.
I bet if you had smacked their Azz it wouldn't have been private property.

[pro reel]

Most people don't know it, but all driving laws only apply to public property and roadways. No one needs a licence or insurance to operate a car on private property. Also, it's everyone for themselves when it comes to accidents that occur on private property. As long as it's deemed to be an accident, the police can't issue a ticket for accidents on private property. The reason for that is that no laws were broken. When someone is ticketed for an accident on a roadway or public property, the ticket will be for a moving violation such as failure to yield the right of way, or running a stop sign etc. Again, none of those laws apply to private property so there is no infraction. Now, if the incident was an aggerssion such as an intentional act, then that falls under the category of assualt and does apply to private property. So again, beware on private property, watch closely and carry full coverage insurance. It sucks, but thats just the way it is. One other note, you know all those stop signs and speed limit signs you see in large parking lots. They are unenforceable because it's private property. The only way you could get in trouble for a driving infraction in a private property lot such as a mall would be if the owner sued you in civil court.

[bassboogieman]

All that is fine, private property and all. But the State cop knew the vehicle was not insured and allowed the vehicle to be driven away by another that had a vallid PA license. Once the uninsured vehicle hit the street, I should think they would be in violation of state law (in PA, insurance on a vehicle is mandatory). The vehicle should have been towed at the very least and at the owner's expense. The whole issue just pisses me off - how the heck did the car get into the parking lot? None of the 3 occupants had a driver's license in their possession. So it just dropped in out of the sky? It's total bullsh!t.

[Highhawk1948]

Vote the career politians out of office, they have made a fortune off of us and most have done nothing to improve our country.
We need men of character to represent us.

[AUFred]

I feel your pain. I wish I could offer more than just a been there done that.

[bamabassman]

dang bruce....man tha tis jsut horrible man. i am wondering WHY DIDN'T THE COP pull them over as SOON AS IT LEFT THE LOT? that is jsut stupid, a STATE TROOPER knwingly letting a vehisle DRIVE out of a lot without insurance? that was his fault, i would ask for his badge number so i could report him. he had a chance right there to stop the dip@#$% form EVER driving again without a licsence or ins.

if more cops did this...maybe it would help? i am only asking since i have no idea.

sorry aobut the truck damage to oyur new durango man.

and i agree with the hawk...VOTE THE CARREER POLITICIANS OUT OF OFFICE. ALL OF THEM!

[bassinbob]

I hear so many stories like yours in this friggin state. He was probably driving right after they left McDonalds. Too many times you hear private property, the cops didn't see it so they can't do anything, etc. You as a law abiding citizen get nailed for every little infraction. I agree with Bama, that state cop should have nailed them as soon as they pulled out of McDonalds. Find out where he lives and tell the Game Commission he has shot deer outa season. They are relentless in their persuit of crimminals. Just make sure you stash some hides on his property.

[pro reel]

Thats true, why didn't the cops pull them over as they pulled out? They knew then that the car wasn't insured. Did the driver show them insurance in his own name that would allow him to drive other cars? My insurance is for any car I drive, not just my own. As for how the car got there, I agree with you, common sense tells us they drove it there, but the cops didn't see it and can't do anything about it, however, if they let somone leave with it without seeing an insurance card, then they were negligent in thier duties. I understand your pissed, I've been through it. I got sideswiped in a near head on crash several years ago, The other driver was a drunk, undocumented democrat. He was driving his live in girlfreinds car at the time, the cops caught him and found an insurance card from american family. It was current and i got with the owners mom the next day. I was told then that the guy always drove her car, so he had permision. I contacted american family and got the run around. After a week of BS, I was told that the car was stolen and he didn't have permision. I asked for a police report where she had turned it in as stolen. I was told she didn't have to prosecute him or have him charged, she just had to tell the insurance agent that he took her keys without permision. It was even ok that he has permision at other times, as long as she said he didn't that night. I was out my deductable on my insurance and couldn't do jack about it. American family can kiss my ***. the *******s always win.

[nofearengineer]

Kevin, you should have sued. You would have won, given you had enough patience to outlast their insurance company lawyers. They use every trick in the book to drag things out, but you would have won eventually.

Unless you've got a CDL or something, most auto insurance policies follow the car, not the driver.

[RustyFender]

I guess I must be out of the loop on the whole private property deal. There's a 200 acre hay field behind my neighbors house and I understand that I'm able to do burnouts and cut figure eights back there in my tagless truck while liquer drunk with no insurance while firing my gun in the air and shouting terrorist threats with impunity. How in the world is McDonalds private property? McDonalds seems like the definition of public property. Do you have to get the owners permission to enter the property at McD's just like I have to ask my neighbor to play in his field? If someone comes on my private property and suffers personal or property damage my insurance co can be sued. Why is McD's insurance not liable? Does the McD's property enjoy the same kind of diplomatic imunity that the Mexican Embassy recieves?

As frustrating as all this is, just imagine if the current admin regains control in Nov. The whole healthcare thing is going to be a crippling anchor to the responsible working class people and business. Don't let it happen.

[bamabassman]

rusty has an EXCELLENT point here. isn't mickey d's responsable now since it happened on THEIR property? i mean if someone can sue them cuz the coffee is TOO hot and make millions, why not use the SAME logic and get a new SUV?

[bassboogieman]

I don't know, at this point I'll let my insurance agent do the leg work. I'm on my way there now, then the body shop, then the rental car agency. I know that POS that hit me hasn't has his day screwed up with doing things other than what he intended to do today. That POS is probably still sleeping, or packing up and moving on so the insurance company can't find him. The State cop said they were "nomads" so they have no ties to this area. Anyway I have an excellent agent, now it's time for him to earn his money.

[Abbeysdad]

Perhaps technically not a moving violation because it was not on a highway, but there was property damage?...if the kid whaled on the truck with a baseball bat (same result), would he be allowed to walk away without charges. Something is very wrong here.
I also agree that allowing someone else to come and drive the uninsured POS vehicle away is a crime and in this case, law enforcement is an accessory.

[bassboogieman]

Thanks, I got a chuckle thinking about that one. If the kid had wailed on my car with a baseball bat - I think I could justify kicking his sorry ***, or "Officer he had a bat and was comming right at me - what could I do other than defend myself. Why did I shoot him five times? The gun only holds five rounds, but I was reloading as you pulled up." OK, that's overboard, for sure - but if someone comes at me with a bat and evil intent, well shame on him.

So I'm home, having gotten all my ducks in a row. Looks like $800 in damages, my insurance will cover me, and I probably won't need a rental. My shop can get the bumper, pre-paint it then I can take it in and it will be about a half day to do the bumper install, re-align the hood and wheel well trim. Probably be good-as-new by the weekend. It's still a PITA having to waste (even just a few hours) of my time getting this done.

It's just SO frustrating to know those of us that do the right thing constantly get screwed, while those that don't skip away scot free, laughing at us "fools" and nothing happens to them. I can be thankfull I was in the car, if it was parked I know the POS would have driven away. This way I have proof for the insurance company that the damage was no fault of mine and therefore covered without question. With all the dents on the other vehicle, I have to wonder how many other vehicles he may have damaged and drove away from, that thought pissed me off agian. Keith if you have Tiny's number, maybe I'll give him a call.......................

[Abbeysdad]

PITA is correct big time....thankfully no one was physically hurt.

[pro reel]

Originally Posted by Abbeysdad

Perhaps technically not a moving violation because it was not on a highway, but there was property damage?...if the kid whaled on the truck with a baseball bat (same result), would he be allowed to walk away without charges. Something is very wrong here.
I also agree that allowing someone else to come and drive the uninsured POS vehicle away is a crime and in this case, law enforcement is an accessory.

Abbeysdad, I agree that it should be that way, but if the kid did it with a baseball bat, it would be criminal and he would be arrested. As long as the cops see it as an accident, they can't do anything. Actually, I'm surprised they showed up at all. Most times if you call 911 about an accident in a parking lot, they will ask if there are injuries or alcohol involved, if you say no, they are supposed to tell you to see if the other driver will exchange insurance info but if it's not a public roadway, they are not going to send officers. Thats Kansas policy at our 911 center. I also know that thats the general policy everywhere. My office is in the same building as our 911 center and the sheriffs motor pool is there also. I have discused this with them before.
Rustyfender. Public property is owned by the city county or state, all other property is private owned, even if it's open to the public. When a business is open, you are allowed to use there parking lot to do business with them. If you park there but walk to a nearby business, they can have your car towed. They own the parking lot. Your friend can allow you to use his field to cut donuts, or he could have you arrested for trespasing and property damage, his field his choice.

[Abbeysdad]

Originally Posted by pro reel

Abbeysdad, I agree that it should be that way, but if the kid did it with a baseball bat, it would be criminal and he would be arrested. As long as the cops see it as an accident, they can't do anything. Actually, I'm surprised they showed up at all. Most times if you call 911 about an accident in a parking lot, they will ask if there are injuries or alcohol involved, if you say no, they are supposed to tell you to see if the other driver will exchange insurance info but if it's not a public roadway, they are not going to send officers. Thats Kansas policy at our 911 center. I also know that thats the general policy everywhere. My office is in the same building as our 911 center and the sheriffs motor pool is there also. I have discused this with them before.
Rustyfender. Public property is owned by the city county or state, all other property is private owned, even if it's open to the public. When a business is open, you are allowed to use there parking lot to do business with them. If you park there but walk to a nearby business, they can have your car towed. They own the parking lot. Your friend can allow you to use his field to cut donuts, or he could have you arrested for trespasing and property damage, his field his choice.

Unfortunately the law and justice are sometimes a near miss away.

[bassboogieman]

I got the cops because the POS that hit me had NO paperwork. NO idenity card, no insuranace card or registration. There was NOTHING to exchange. If I let him go - 1) WTF was he? 2) WTF does he live. 3) Will the insurance company believe I was hit or think maybe I hit something and was scamming them? 4) How does my car get fixed?

Answer to all the above is I let him walk - I am TOTALLY Fuc***, rather than just being out my $500 deductable and my time running around getting estimates. I heard from my Insurance Co. this morning and they will try to get reimbursed AND get my $500 deductible back. My other recourse, should they fail, is to sue him (as driver) and his mother (as owner, giving permission to an unlicensed driver to operate her vehicle) in Small Claims Court (Civil matter). By the time I do that, they will be nowhere to be found, so I lose and the POS is a happy camper not out a dime, where is the justice in that?

I'm sure if those people can't afford insurance, they can't afford the restitution claim and will disappear as they have no ties to the area, none seem to be employed other than the kid that hit me was empolyed by the McDonalds (how long will he have to work to pay me off at McDonald's wages?). Cop let him go, so they probably let my money go as well. So much for being a "good citizen" and expecting law enforcement to take care of the bad guys and return the victim to status quo. We'd be better off if the cops let us "victims" handle the bad guys ourselves and just look the other way while we do it.

[bluebasser86]

Did the officer at least get some form of ID from the kid? I wouldn't have let him go in the first place because if he drives off that lot and hits someone on the roadway or whoever took the car does, now I'm liable because I let someone drive a vehicle I knew was uninsured on a public roadway when it shouldn't have been.
But that might not be the biggest issue if they didn't get any ID from the kid. Maybe he wasn't carrying any ID because he was running away from a violent crime he'd just committed or running drugs or something. Running someone's tags and basic info is one of the first things they teach us in the academy. Sounds like the officer probably shouldn't have let the vehicle go, it should have been towed if it wasn't insured and it was going to leave that parking lot. Sorry about having to deal with the headache, that would be a really frustrating situation.

[bassboogieman]

As to the ID issue, I can't say for certain as the cop didn't pass on to me any of that. There were 3 people in the car and NONE had ID when I asked, all were late teens. Someone claiming to be the driver's "mother" did show up, along with a few others and identified the driver as her "son". Who really knows? No proper ID was produced that I saw. Evidently the run of the tag confirmed the car was at least registered (the tag & VIN # must have matched, they are both on the police report), if the "mother" produced additional registration information, I did not see it. As far as insurance - the police report says "NONE" so I have to believe the car was not insured and the cop knew it and it's at that point I believe the car should have been towed. My insurance company has no additional information on the owner's insured status as of today, so I'm guessing I'm very screwed, the IA's or whaterver their status is, will disappear no worse off financially, still driving the roads without insurance and I'm out $500.00 for sitting still in a parking lot minding my own business waiting to order a burger and fries I really didn't need, when a POS backs out of a parking space and right into the front of my car. Fate works in funny ways. I'm sorry I'm still ranting about this but I am so frustrated by the injustice of this entire incident.

[bamabassman]

can't say as i blame oyu bruce. but this is happening to us all, as amercians, in this day and time. used to be different. used ot be when a person did something like this they owned up and PAID up. i still think the cop should have went after the pos after it left the lot. i would call the dmv office and ask if that was the correct procedure for him to let it go. report the cop. sue cdonalds in small claims court for the $500.00. bet you get the money.

[pro reel]

If you are positive that the officer allowed the car to be driven away by someone that didn't have insurance that would cover them to drive it, then you should file a complaint and report him. However, a lot of people do have insurance that covers them to drive an vehicle. On my policy, it was an inexpensive rider that allows to drive any vehicle including renting a car without paying for extra insurance, borrowing a car without risk to that persons insurance or even to buy or test drive a car and drive it without risk. As for sueing Mcdonalds, you could try, but you probably won't win. You have probably seen the signs in lots of parking lots that say not responsible for damage. Thats to warn you that you are at your own risk when you park there or drive there. They don't need the signs, it's just the way it is. To win that, you would have to prove that Mcdonalds was negligent in some way that caused the accident to occur. The kid may have worked there, but if he was not on the clock at the time, then they are not responsible. It sucks that this happend and that the kid didn't get in any trouble and the mom didn't get cited for no innsurance, but even though we all are very sure the kid drove the car there, the cops didn't see him drive it on the road, so he didn't break any laws that anyone can prove. While he was driving in the parking lot, he didn't need to have a license or insurance. There isn't any law that says you need a license or insurance to drive in a private parking lot. That should be changed, but I doubt that it will. Now, none of that means that he isn't resposible. Things like this are what the civil courts are for. If you filed aginst him and his mom in small claims, you would win, you just probably would never collect. As for what happend that day, you are lucky you kept your cool and didn't touch the kid when he started to leave, or you would have been the one the cops took away. sadly, during the time that he hit you car, he wasn't breaking any laws, he was technically free to leave and you couldn't legally do anything about it other than take down the tag number and turn it in to your insurance along with filling out an accident repot at a local police station. It would not have been a hit and run, because again, none of the rules of the road apply to private property. The only thing governing the accident is insurance law and personal responsibility. Which would be hashed out in court, if you or your insurance companie sued the driver and owner of the car.

[wallywallace]

i love it....but..... Welcome to America