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Old 01-24-06, 01:56 PM   #1
Wishing2BFishing
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Default Lure stuff

At this point, you guys may know that I am always asking questions. For that apologize. It is just that when I found this site, I realized that I tapped into a well of knowledge. Finally, I can get information from people that really seem to want to help rather than some dude in Bass Pro that just wants to brag about his fishing accomplishments. Well here I go with my questions . . .

About a year ago, I decided to start writing the diving depth of the lure on the bottom of each of my crankbaits. No problems as far as the new ones that I purchased. However, I am having trouble determing the diving depth of my other cranks

I heard about a book from Rapala that lists the diving depths of all of their lures (I believe it is called "The Tackle Box Guide"). When I went to their site, I was unable to order the book (it came up, but wouldn't let me place an order). Does anyone know where I can find this book?

Also, I heard that the Smithwick jerkbaits, have different color eyes for suspending vs floating. (I can't remember if yellow is suspending or red is suspending). Anyway, does anyone know if other companies use different eye colors to distinguish between diving, suspending, floating, ect?

As always, I appreciate your help. Zooker, Huckfinn, Bassmaster, and everyone else . . . you guys are great!
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Old 01-24-06, 02:20 PM   #2
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Forget about color for depth, you have to look at other factors.
One is the lure a floater or sinking lure, for example a ratLtrap will sink to the bottom or any desired depth you want to obtain, then you can start your retrieve, a nice feature when you are targeting a weedbed line that is typically deeper than most crankbaits will go.
The next thing to consider is the lenght of the crankbaits bill..most but not all crankbaits float, and usually if the front bill is a inch or two, you're looking at depths about 5-7 feet, give or take a foot.
The extremely long bills compared to the body length are your deeper divers.
The rattling rogues all used to float, about ten years ago they came with a suspending feature, you cast the lure out, reel and jerk it down to 5-9 feet, and instead of bobbing back up, it tends to slowly suspend and eventually will come up minutes later.
Of course you can always add weight to lures like that to keep them down.
The colore of the rogue has nothing to do with depth. Its one of my favorite lures in the spring.
What you need to do is look at the description of crankbaits and see what level they will go to...most are 3-5 or 5-7 feet if its a floater, but there is a whole world of sinking crankbaits out there.
Plus there are lures like the norman DD22 that will go 15ft + in depth.
My advise is to go buy a variety and experiment with counting how long they take to come back to the surface.
Along with that, get a crome rattletrap 1/2-3/4 ounce, and also some traps in other colors, crawdad red, firetiger etc.
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Old 01-24-06, 02:34 PM   #3
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JB, I here what you are saying . . . but I thought that the color of the eyes is used by the manufactuer to help fisherman distinguish whether the rogue is a suspend vs. a floater. Is this true?
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Old 01-24-06, 02:52 PM   #4
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yes it is.. .the red eyes are the suspending models and the yellow eyes are the floaters
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Old 01-24-06, 02:54 PM   #5
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You're probably correct, however I think in the bill of the rogues it says supsending, most of them are these days, plus they come in two sizes.
Get a couple of both, I prefer the black top, crome sides and orange belly, but I have all the colors they make.
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Old 01-24-06, 02:54 PM   #6
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Thanks future pro. Do you know if other brands, besides Smithwick, do the same thing with their jerkbaits?
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Old 01-24-06, 02:56 PM   #7
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JB and Futurepro, I will admit that I usually don't fish jerkbaits. I have some but I think most of them are floaters. Anyway, I read that VanDam won the Bassmaster Classic with a discontinued Rogue (which has now been brought back by Smithwick). This got me thinking, perhaps I should get some of those suspending jerks and give them a fair try, especially when I go for smallmouth.
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Old 01-24-06, 02:59 PM   #8
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Oh yeah, and I still don't know if the jerks that I have are suspending versus floating. I know I could figure it out on the water but since I am trying to label my lures, I was hoping that I would get it figured out.

Does anyone else label the diving depth of their lures or am I just anal?
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Old 01-24-06, 03:08 PM   #9
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the book you speak of can be found at Dick's sporting goods..it's like 4.95..There's also another book on the market that shows running depths of many,if not all,manufacturers hardbaits.I remember seeing it in a Bassmaster article a few years back.I'll try to find out the name for ya
ps.Bassgrl spoke of Target having Rapala markdowns.I'd look there and any place else that sells Rapalas..just a thought.But Dick's has them for sure
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Old 01-24-06, 03:12 PM   #10
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i have the best luck with suspending rogues when the water is 55 and below. jerk-jerk pause is the best retrieve, that i found, but you just haveta figure out waht the fish want. I've also picked up a few X-RAPS from rapala.. had great success on them ... they are a lil more $$ but worth it... i only used it in the summer because i didnt buy them until then.. cant wait till spring to see what size smallies i can catch with them in cold water!
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Old 01-24-06, 03:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by va_basser
the book you speak of can be found at Dick's sporting goods..it's like 4.95..There's also another book on the market that shows running depths of many,if not all,manufacturers hardbaits.I remember seeing it in a Bassmaster article a few years back.I'll try to find out the name for ya
ps.Bassgrl spoke of Target having Rapala markdowns.I'd look there and any place else that sells Rapalas..just a thought.But Dick's has them for sure
Thanks Virginia Basser. In the event you happen to find out the name of the other book that lists the depths of many hardbaits, I would appreciate the info.
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Old 01-24-06, 03:31 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Futurepro22
i have the best luck with suspending rogues when the water is 55 and below. jerk-jerk pause is the best retrieve, that i found, but you just haveta figure out waht the fish want. I've also picked up a few X-RAPS from rapala.. had great success on them ... they are a lil more $$ but worth it... i only used it in the summer because i didnt buy them until then.. cant wait till spring to see what size smallies i can catch with them in cold water!
Hey futurepro, do the X-raps suspend? Do you like the Smithwicks more than the X-raps?
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Old 01-24-06, 03:51 PM   #13
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the xraps do suspend. I like smithwicks in the past but then again i never used the xraps in the spring yet.... so it may or may not change
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Old 01-24-06, 04:35 PM   #14
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W2bf
Never stop asking questions. Like I said in the other post to get smart you need to learn to learn you need to get information to get that information ASK your questions.
Yellow eye flies red eye dives this may help
Jb is very correct about the lips
and Va is right about Dicks and the book. I use to sell them there
When next you are in a store, look at the lures. Pick them up in your hands and look at the shape and size of the lips. Close your eyes and try to picture the lure in your mind, read the box and find out what the maker says the lure will do. this will help you remember the shape and size and depth of the lure.
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Old 01-24-06, 04:51 PM   #15
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I have been throwing the rogue I guess about 13 years now, and every year its the same thing, you really have to build up an endurance to jerking that bait in the cadence that works best for the conditions.
To get the rogue to quickly go to the desired depth, the first tugs are usually really hard ones, then you pause and repeat...try doing this non stop for a hour, the forearm really starts aching.
When I go our I'll give it hell for about 20 minutes and then go to something else, maybe later that day go back to it... over the course of a few weeks I have built up enough time with the rogue I can fish it a few hours.
By mid spring you should be able to throw it about all day. And btw you can't fish it too slow, many guys work them to fast...me included...
its a nice way to hit the water , work out the jitters, and make lots of casts , I usually go to the spinnerbait after I have "rogued out" and slow it down a tad..
Clear water, I like the clown or teal and crome.
Murky I like the black and orange, plus I have one in a crappie color they made for one year and discontinued..its a good one but not my favorite rogue...theres something about having a shade of teal on the sides that does the trick many times around here.
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Old 01-24-06, 07:16 PM   #16
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Wishing2BFishing don't even apologize for the questions. Also, lots of pros mark their lure's running depths. Anal anglers often catch more fish.

I've heard that some BPS's have testing tanks with depth markings so you can find true running depths. Some manufacturer's lures of the same model dive to different depths. Rapalas always dive where they say they will.

I love X-raps! I couldn't believe they had better action than Smithwick's Rogues and Strike King's Wild Shiner designed by KVD (I bet Strike King was livid when he won with a different brand, since they sponsor him). Rogues had been my favorite jerkbait, until I used an X-rap. I think they're coming out with a jointed version as well as smaller sizes. I can only pray.

You can modify your floaters with Suspenstrips for slower rising or suspension. I wrap them around the hook shanks, but you can put them on the belly or even the back. When I wrap them on the hook shanks I put them on the rear ones mostly, so they float up nose first. Suspenstrips and Suspendots are cheap too.
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Last edited by Patrick Krueger, Jr.; 01-24-06 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 01-26-06, 09:08 PM   #17
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W2BF,sorry it took so long..here's the site...
http://www.precisionangling.com/books.html
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Old 01-27-06, 06:05 AM   #18
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The apology for asking questions is NOT accepted. Aint no need inapologizing. I ask questions EVERYDAY and I feel the only dumb question is the one not asked, As far as the baits and how they react...depth,action etc etc go to a swimming pool. It works. LMAO! Might help to use a private pool so ya dont hook any swimmers.....besides the looks you get for casting in a swimming pool are quite ridiculous.
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Old 01-27-06, 09:01 PM   #19
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Don't ever rely on what a manufacturer says about what their bait dives too. Not they are lying, but they are lying. Actually they aren't, just they have someone unrealistic and unnatural conditions created to get the maximum depth their bait will dive and work from there. Either go to a swimming pool or if you don't have access to one...like my self. Use a boat with a and put yourself where you can work known depths parallel (so your bait is over the same depth the whole retrieve). If your in 10 foot of water then you know it dives at least ten feet...on that rod, with that line, retrieved at that speed, on that particular distance of cast. If it just maybe ticks the bottom a little, say like 3 cranks of the handle. Then you know it barely reaches ten...is more likely to consistently run at 7 or 8 ft. A lot of it is just experience IMO, because it is unrealistic to expect the same results time after time. Any single factor can affect how deep a lure will dive, including how it tracks, whether or not there is current, and the other factors I mentioned above. Here's a tip, it's not the tensile strength of line that matters as much as the diameter. I've got 12 lb. test that is as thick as some 14 lb. test and 12 lb test that's as thin as some 10lb. test, between the two there can be as much as 2 ft. difference the same bait will dive...even though they are both 12 lb. test. (depending on the bait).
Note...all suspending rogues manufactured by Smithwick say "suspending" on the lip. Some rogues say nothing (much older ones) and others just say "Smithwick Rogue"...both of these are floaters. If it suspends at all but doesn't say "suspending" that would be a custom weighted rogue. I'm sure of this at least from '96 on. Maybe earlier they didn't stamp the lip with "suspending", but I can't be sure of this either way.
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Old 01-27-06, 10:23 PM   #20
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if you have rapala lures you can go to their site rapala.com and they have thier lures listed by depth. if you click on the lure they usually have some tips and video of the lure. hope that helps.
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Old 01-28-06, 11:09 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB
I have been throwing the rogue I guess about 13 years now, and every year its the same thing, you really have to build up an endurance to jerking that bait in the cadence that works best for the conditions.
To get the rogue to quickly go to the desired depth, the first tugs are usually really hard ones, then you pause and repeat...try doing this non stop for a hour, the forearm really starts aching.
When I go our I'll give it hell for about 20 minutes and then go to something else, maybe later that day go back to it... over the course of a few weeks I have built up enough time with the rogue I can fish it a few hours.
By mid spring you should be able to throw it about all day. And btw you can't fish it too slow, many guys work them to fast...me included...
its a nice way to hit the water , work out the jitters, and make lots of casts , I usually go to the spinnerbait after I have "rogued out" and slow it down a tad..
Clear water, I like the clown or teal and crome.
Murky I like the black and orange, plus I have one in a crappie color they made for one year and discontinued..its a good one but not my favorite rogue...theres something about having a shade of teal on the sides that does the trick many times around here.
JB, do you jerk the jerkbait to get it down to its suspending depth? Or do you reel the jerkbait to the suspending depth and then jerk?
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Old 01-28-06, 11:18 AM   #22
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Futurepro22 said:
Quote:
cant wait till spring to see what size smallies i can catch with them in cold water!
I can answer that one for you in one word......

BIG
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Old 01-28-06, 11:34 AM   #23
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I jerk on the rogue 6-12 times to get it down , never reel it down, just how I was shown is all, I try to variate the cadence of the jerking, mostly 2-3 jerks, pause and so forth.. I mix it up all the time till I get a hit then try to stick with what ever cadence I was doing at the time
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Old 01-28-06, 05:59 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JB
I jerk on the rogue 6-12 times to get it down , never reel it down, just how I was shown is all, I try to variate the cadence of the jerking, mostly 2-3 jerks, pause and so forth.. I mix it up all the time till I get a hit then try to stick with what ever cadence I was doing at the time
JB, I will give the rogue a try and follow your recommendations for the presentation. Any thoughts on size . . . should I use the 4.5 inch size or the bigger 5.5 size?

By the way, you mentioned that you had some Rogues in special colors. The other day I was in Allentown on business and stopped at "Angler's Paradise" (a local tackle shop with tons of good stuff, they don't stock about of useless things that I wouldn't use). Anyway, they had Rogues in some really cool colors (colors that are not in BPS or Cabela's catalogues). I picked a few up . . . a couple in a baby bass pattern with a slight purplish/teel tint on the bottom and a orange purple color.
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Old 01-28-06, 06:12 PM   #25
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Personally I like the shorter one , but most guys I fish with use the bigger.
I own about every color they make , and most are of the bigger size.
Go get ya a black and silver one today! Here are some of my other favs. that I always am reaching for....
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