OK what do you think of this tourny format..

Captmikestarrett · 08-14-09, 10:29 AM

128 meg SD cards are used by pretty much every camera. They are 5 bucks each (less than a fish bag)

Each person at checkin in the morning gets a zip lock bag with a measure tape / ID number card laminated / an SD 128 meg card with the same number written on it / a score sheet

Five fish get photos and that is your limit. No cull rule so the fishing gets tricky. You need to lay the tape across the fish and photo it with the ID card also... And also the particapant can take photos of him or her holding the fish as well...(in fact encourage those photos too) Each fish is verified by the other fisherman and signed on the score sheet.

At weigh in you sit down in a cool area anounce the winner based on total length and play the pictures on a laptop or TV. All cards are collected and all photos stored on a safe drive. Cards are wiped for next tourny..

I have done these with striper tourney's and they are fun. My suggestion is too change the measuring tapes up now and then.

If only one angler has a camera they can swap the SD cards for each pic if needed.

Just an idea..

Capt Mike

nofearengineer · 08-14-09, 10:52 AM

I am guessing the fish must all be photographed on the same side; i.e. for identification purposes? That way you wouldn't have people photographing both sides of the same fish, claiming they caught two.

Seems like an interesting system, with really good intentions. I do see a problem with it though, when it comes to bass fishing. The big tourney industry sure seems to love its "jerk the fish out of the bag and hold them up" photo ops, especially when it comes to TV coverage.

Captmikestarrett · 08-14-09, 11:09 AM

Yea this format has been used in striper tourny's with much fanfair. They had a huge tent with a big screen behind the guys as they got there awards.

In highly competive world of pro bass fishing it most likely will not work. Way too much good old boy mentallity. But in clubs and small low money tourny's it will work fine. Release at boat tourny's are a must during hot weather. I think the format needs to change again as the big tournys are getting negative points for fish killing. Oh sure a deep hooked bass will not make it but no one will see it stacked up like cord wood after a tourny.

Capt Mike

nofearengineer · 08-14-09, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captmikestarrett

Yea this format has been used in striper tourny's with much fanfair. They had a huge tent with a big screen behind the guys as they got there awards.

In highly competive world of pro bass fishing it most likely will not work. Way too much good old boy mentallity. But in clubs and small low money tourny's it will work fine. Release at boat tourny's are a must during hot weather. I think the format needs to change again as the big tournys are getting negative points for fish killing. Oh sure a deep hooked bass will not make it but no one will see it stacked up like cord wood after a tourny.

Capt Mike

I agree...I'd like to see it become a widespread thing. I really used to keep all of my fish, but I have to admit it feels good to see a big ol' sow bass swimming back to her hidey-hole.

One thing I have considered about photographing fish. I assume bass, like leopards, do not change their spots. They may darken or fade with mood, but I assume the pattern doesn't change. Anyone know for certain?

Assuming it is so, I am really looking forward to catching an 8 lb bass, comparing the photos of it to all of my other photos, and finding I caught it 2-3 years ago when it was a 5 lb'er. Man, that will make for a great "before and after" shot.

JB · 08-15-09, 06:06 PM

I can hear it now, someone down in the deep humid south slams a nine pounder and his camera won't work due to humidity LOL....or the eight year old on the forum cant find batteries for his disposable disney camera

Jim80 · 08-15-09, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB

I can hear it now, someone down in the deep humid south slams a nine pounder and his camera won't work due to humidity LOL....or the eight year old on the forum cant find batteries for his disposable disney camera

Lmao man that was good , and i like the idea for the format as well

jim

08-16-09, 01:03 AM

how would they weigh the fish. I seen 3lb fish that are longer than 4lbers. I see that you said by length but is that really fair.

nofearengineer · 08-16-09, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonaldBreland

how would they weigh the fish. I seen 3lb fish that are longer than 4lbers. I see that you said by length but is that really fair.

I think that's part of the appeal to this format, Donald. Weight is just an arbitrary measure of fish quality. You'd just be replacing it with length. I think that's good too, because it would be removing the need to livewell (and thus risk killing) heavy females, in lieu of long males, which are less important to the species' breeding success.

08-16-09, 09:56 PM

good point nofear.

crankybait · 08-16-09, 10:08 PM

length and girth, possibly?

nofearengineer · 08-16-09, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crankybait

length and girth, possibly?

Girth would be a hard variable to measure consistently, and easy to cheat on, as you could always hide a bit of extra measuring tape behind the fish. Length is hard to fake.

rrw4258 · 08-17-09, 11:57 AM

What is stopping somebody from catching 5 fish, taking pictures of these fish, then catching a bigger one later... all they have to do is go back and delete a picture and add this one in as their 5th fish.

Ryan

Kevin · 08-17-09, 12:08 PM

Certainly not trying to throw water on the fire... but what would prevent someone from transferring fish photos from prior outings onto the card? I have an epson card dumper than can read/write to cf/sd and can be tethered to laptop for manipulation/sharing.

I could definitely see different boats emailing their intra-day photos to one angler to use and sharing the winnings. Plus photoshop can do anything.

I think it's cool if you trust everyone in the tournament. I would be worried though if I paid an entry fee. I pretty much expect cheating with the current system as it is. I feel pretty confident I could win this kind of tournament a lot with my laptop onboard if I had no morals. Or easier yet, with someone on land I could just email the photos too for manipulation.

nofearengineer · 08-17-09, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Certainly not trying to throw water on the fire... but what would prevent someone from transferring fish photos from prior outings onto the card? I have an epson card dumper than can read/write to cf/sd and can be tethered to laptop for manipulation/sharing.

I could definitely see different boats emailing their intra-day photos to one angler to use and sharing the winnings. Plus photoshop can do anything.

I think it's cool if you trust everyone in the tournament. I would be worried though if I paid an entry fee. I pretty much expect cheating with the current system as it is. I feel pretty confident I could win this kind of tournament a lot with my laptop onboard if I had no morals. Or easier yet, with someone on land I could just email the photos too for manipulation.

They make volatile, one-time write-only memory chips. Not by clipping off some tab or anything like that...at the electronic level. They are simply not capable of being erased or over-written. However, I'm not sure if they cost more or not (very limited applications = small scale production). Those cards could be numbered and/or marked in such a way as to make them secure. The only way I can see this would work however, is for the tournament to supply the camera itself. IT wouldn't have to be an expensive camera. It would just have to be the "official" camera of the tournament series, so everybody knew exactly how to use it. The memory compartment could be sealed with special tamper-proof tape that would show any intrusions.

Boy...this is sure starting to sound like a lot of trouble haha. MAybe we're discovering why they haven't gone to this system yet. And like any system...someone is going to find a way to cheat eventually.

WaffleJaw · 08-17-09, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

They make volatile, one-time write-only memory chips. Not by clipping off some tab or anything like that...at the electronic level. They are simply not capable of being erased or over-written. However, I'm not sure if they cost more or not (very limited applications = small scale production). Those cards could be numbered and/or marked in such a way as to make them secure. The only way I can see this would work however, is for the tournament to supply the camera itself. IT wouldn't have to be an expensive camera. It would just have to be the "official" camera of the tournament series, so everybody knew exactly how to use it. The memory compartment could be sealed with special tamper-proof tape that would show any intrusions.

Boy...this is sure starting to sound like a lot of trouble haha. MAybe we're discovering why they haven't gone to this system yet. And like any system...someone is going to find a way to cheat eventually.

just keep an eye out for a guy in a pink hoodie,lol

08-17-09, 06:22 PM

The old saying goes. If its not broke then don't fix it.

cassidyta · 08-17-09, 06:41 PM

I think the issue is that it is broke. I was reading an article recently where the projected number of Bass killed during a tourney is close to 30%. We can debate the numbers or the causes, but it does happen.

JB · 08-17-09, 06:56 PM

i'd say that depends on the time of year, i can see it being higher in hot months with warmer livewells

swimbaitkid · 08-17-09, 07:19 PM

the only problem would be if guys cheated,bc my friend can "crack" a fishs back and stretch it 1/2 inch.Not saying anyone would cheat but some people are different when there is money.but thats a good idea and I dont think you would have a problem with fish dieing bc they get released quickly

islandbass · 08-18-09, 06:39 PM

That is an interesting system, that rightfully is dependent on honor. No honor for this system or any other and it won't work as intended. Also, if I really wanted to cheat I would devise a measuring tape scaled to showing inches but in tinier graduations to make a fish appear longer than it really is. I am no longer surprised at the lengths some unscrupulous people will go just to win.

Captmikestarrett · 08-24-09, 09:59 PM

At the check in you get your tape. At the check in you get your SD chip. Your co-angler needs to sign off on each fish.

Yes you can cheat if you really want too. But it should be tried in hot weather and small clubs..

Capt Mike

wargoth · 08-24-09, 10:24 PM

This is a great idea, and with the tech available in memory cards, etc. coupled with things like ID cards, tapes, all fish being shot from the left side, digital encryption on the cards, and on and on, you could get it to the point of being damn near impossible to cheat, I mean really, you could cheat in a weight tourney by force feeding them lead shot and the like so no system is totally foolproof.

And to address rrw4258's comment, that would be exactly like the culling that currently goes on in tourneys.

On the pro circuit where the money is plentiful, one could even go so far as to issue cameras specially programmed. Perhaps backing it up with roaming officials doing random spot checks. I think there is great merit to the idea

RandyHolt · 08-24-09, 10:47 PM

How about a video shot by the partner to show the fish being brought into the boat, weighed, and released. Sure the video can be shot elsewhere, but coupled with the SD Card lock down, it could help keep it honest. And fish alive. No lead pumping for you.

Fishing Fanatic · 08-25-09, 12:36 AM

The kayak fishing tournaments that I have hosted and participated in use this exact format and we have no problems. We all use the same measuring device, plus a unique "token" or ID card that must be in all photos, plus the first photo on the card must be of you, the token and your boat. Really works good.

08-14-09, 10:29 AM	#1
Captmikestarrett BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: May 2006 Location: Accokeek MD Posts: 3,315	OK what do you think of this tourny format.. 128 meg SD cards are used by pretty much every camera. They are 5 bucks each (less than a fish bag) Each person at checkin in the morning gets a zip lock bag with a measure tape / ID number card laminated / an SD 128 meg card with the same number written on it / a score sheet Five fish get photos and that is your limit. No cull rule so the fishing gets tricky. You need to lay the tape across the fish and photo it with the ID card also... And also the particapant can take photos of him or her holding the fish as well...(in fact encourage those photos too) Each fish is verified by the other fisherman and signed on the score sheet. At weigh in you sit down in a cool area anounce the winner based on total length and play the pictures on a laptop or TV. All cards are collected and all photos stored on a safe drive. Cards are wiped for next tourny.. I have done these with striper tourney's and they are fun. My suggestion is too change the measuring tapes up now and then. If only one angler has a camera they can swap the SD cards for each pic if needed. Just an idea.. Capt Mike __________________ Capt Mike Starrett light tackle guide Potomac River http://www.indianheadcharters.com

08-14-09, 10:52 AM	#2
nofearengineer BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southwest IN Posts: 5,630	I am guessing the fish must all be photographed on the same side; i.e. for identification purposes? That way you wouldn't have people photographing both sides of the same fish, claiming they caught two. Seems like an interesting system, with really good intentions. I do see a problem with it though, when it comes to bass fishing. The big tourney industry sure seems to love its "jerk the fish out of the bag and hold them up" photo ops, especially when it comes to TV coverage. __________________ Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.

08-14-09, 11:09 AM	#3
Captmikestarrett BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: May 2006 Location: Accokeek MD Posts: 3,315	Yea this format has been used in striper tourny's with much fanfair. They had a huge tent with a big screen behind the guys as they got there awards. In highly competive world of pro bass fishing it most likely will not work. Way too much good old boy mentallity. But in clubs and small low money tourny's it will work fine. Release at boat tourny's are a must during hot weather. I think the format needs to change again as the big tournys are getting negative points for fish killing. Oh sure a deep hooked bass will not make it but no one will see it stacked up like cord wood after a tourny. Capt Mike __________________ Capt Mike Starrett light tackle guide Potomac River http://www.indianheadcharters.com

08-16-09, 10:08 PM	#10
crankybait BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: marlboro, nj Posts: 3,250	length and girth, possibly? __________________ www.fishinfanatics.com

08-17-09, 11:57 AM	#12
rrw4258 BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bellevue, Ohio Posts: 2,338	What is stopping somebody from catching 5 fish, taking pictures of these fish, then catching a bigger one later... all they have to do is go back and delete a picture and add this one in as their 5th fish. Ryan __________________ Never Give Up!

08-15-09, 06:06 PM	#5
JB BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8,655	I can hear it now, someone down in the deep humid south slams a nine pounder and his camera won't work due to humidity LOL....or the eight year old on the forum cant find batteries for his disposable disney camera

08-16-09, 01:03 AM	#7
DonaldBreland Guest Posts: n/a	how would they weigh the fish. I seen 3lb fish that are longer than 4lbers. I see that you said by length but is that really fair.

08-16-09, 09:56 PM	#9
DonaldBreland Guest Posts: n/a	good point nofear.

08-17-09, 12:08 PM	#13
Kevin Administrator Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 651	Certainly not trying to throw water on the fire... but what would prevent someone from transferring fish photos from prior outings onto the card? I have an epson card dumper than can read/write to cf/sd and can be tethered to laptop for manipulation/sharing. I could definitely see different boats emailing their intra-day photos to one angler to use and sharing the winnings. Plus photoshop can do anything. I think it's cool if you trust everyone in the tournament. I would be worried though if I paid an entry fee. I pretty much expect cheating with the current system as it is. I feel pretty confident I could win this kind of tournament a lot with my laptop onboard if I had no morals. Or easier yet, with someone on land I could just email the photos too for manipulation.

08-17-09, 06:22 PM	#16
DonaldBreland Guest Posts: n/a	The old saying goes. If its not broke then don't fix it.

08-17-09, 06:41 PM	#17
cassidyta BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,928	I think the issue is that it is broke. I was reading an article recently where the projected number of Bass killed during a tourney is close to 30%. We can debate the numbers or the causes, but it does happen. __________________ If you have ever wondered if you should retie, the answer is yes.

08-17-09, 06:56 PM	#18
JB BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8,655	i'd say that depends on the time of year, i can see it being higher in hot months with warmer livewells

08-17-09, 07:19 PM	#19
swimbaitkid BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 352	the only problem would be if guys cheated,bc my friend can "crack" a fishs back and stretch it 1/2 inch.Not saying anyone would cheat but some people are different when there is money.but thats a good idea and I dont think you would have a problem with fish dieing bc they get released quickly

08-18-09, 06:39 PM	#20
islandbass BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: WA State Posts: 1,783	That is an interesting system, that rightfully is dependent on honor. No honor for this system or any other and it won't work as intended. Also, if I really wanted to cheat I would devise a measuring tape scaled to showing inches but in tinier graduations to make a fish appear longer than it really is. I am no longer surprised at the lengths some unscrupulous people will go just to win. __________________ ARX "If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles." Doug Larson (Shimano 2005 Reel Catalog)

08-24-09, 09:59 PM	#21
Captmikestarrett BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: May 2006 Location: Accokeek MD Posts: 3,315	At the check in you get your tape. At the check in you get your SD chip. Your co-angler needs to sign off on each fish. Yes you can cheat if you really want too. But it should be tried in hot weather and small clubs.. Capt Mike __________________ Capt Mike Starrett light tackle guide Potomac River http://www.indianheadcharters.com

08-24-09, 10:24 PM	#22
wargoth BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Thompson, Ohio Posts: 223	This is a great idea, and with the tech available in memory cards, etc. coupled with things like ID cards, tapes, all fish being shot from the left side, digital encryption on the cards, and on and on, you could get it to the point of being damn near impossible to cheat, I mean really, you could cheat in a weight tourney by force feeding them lead shot and the like so no system is totally foolproof. And to address rrw4258's comment, that would be exactly like the culling that currently goes on in tourneys. On the pro circuit where the money is plentiful, one could even go so far as to issue cameras specially programmed. Perhaps backing it up with roaming officials doing random spot checks. I think there is great merit to the idea __________________ -Wargoth

08-24-09, 10:47 PM	#23
RandyHolt BassFishin.Com Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Maryland Posts: 85	How about a video shot by the partner to show the fish being brought into the boat, weighed, and released. Sure the video can be shot elsewhere, but coupled with the SD Card lock down, it could help keep it honest. And fish alive. No lead pumping for you.

08-25-09, 12:36 AM	#24
Fishing Fanatic BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Warner Robins, GA Posts: 135	The kayak fishing tournaments that I have hosted and participated in use this exact format and we have no problems. We all use the same measuring device, plus a unique "token" or ID card that must be in all photos, plus the first photo on the card must be of you, the token and your boat. Really works good.

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