weightless baitcaster??

[boloson]

Can someone recommend a baitcaster to throw weightless senkos? just want to know what experiences people have with the many different brands out there. Pros & cons. price is not a factor but performance definetly is so don't want a $500 reel unless it performs like a $500 reel (If there is such a reel)

[Bassboss]

Pretty much any baitcaster will toss a weightless senko man. They're not light baits at all (Unless it's like a 3 or 4" ones). Will some reel cast them better then others.. you bet. Just to name a few names, some reels (USDM) that a known for their casting abilities are Shimano Curado, and chronarch, Lew's reels, Daiwa HSTA, Steez, and SOL.

[Jrob78]

I have to agree with BB. Just about any baitcaster will handle 4" and 5" Senkos easily.

If you're looking for a baitcaster to cast light baits, I would look at the Curado 50E or perhaps a used Daiwa Sol. Both reels excel at casting light weights. The Curado can be had for right around $150 on Ebay.

[BigBassin144]

"Weightless Senko" is a term I really don't like. While there is no added weight, a Senko is anything but "weightless."

Like Bassboss and Jrob have said, any decent baitcaster should cast your standard 5" senko, and most will cast a 4". A 5" Senko weighs over 3/8oz and bigger senkos like a 7" can weight nearly 1oz.

I'd look in to a Daiwa Sol, Fuego, or Viento. I have all three. The Viento is currently my t-rigged senko reel. For a bit more you could get a Zillion, which are also great reels.

BB

[Imgoodatwhatido]

BPS prolites can be had on ebay worth the money, i have one on my finesse rod and i can throw really light baits easily with little effort. I like to throw a tiny pop r sometimes and i use this reel for it.

[boloson]

thanks. ill look into what have been suggested. i mainly wacky rig a 5" worm but actually am looking for something that can cast smaller lighter worms

[BigBassin144]

Originally Posted by boloson

thanks. ill look into what have been suggested. i mainly wacky rig a 5" worm but actually am looking for something that can cast smaller lighter worms

In that case, check out the Daiwa Sol. It's been discontinued, but they can still be found for sale on eBay and forums. You can also check out the JDM version of the Sol, the Daiwa Alphas and it's variations: 103, Type F, R-edition, and Ito.

The Daiwa Pixy is harder to find and will cost you more, but is the ultimate in finesse bait casters, might be a bit overkill unless you're fishing like weightless 4" finesse worms or something. For light t-rigs, the Sol/Alphas should work fine.

BB

[islandbass]

Curados can toss 3" senkos but rod and line choice will also influence its ability to cast them well. I would assume that Daiwa and other company offerings at that price point should also fare well.

[Apt79]

I think the line would have alot to do with the ability to cast it farther. Try lighter line 10lb maybe or even 8lb

[BigBassin144]

Having the right line and rod do help a lot. But without a good finesse reel, the right rod and line are useless.

BB

[boloson]

although distance would be a definite plus, it's not a priority for me. any experiences with a steez?

[BigBassin144]

Unfortunately no personal experience with a Steez. I've almost bought one a few times though.

The Steez 100 reels are more your general purpose type reels while the Steez 103 reels are going to be better suited towards lighter lures and pitching. If you're going to be spending that kind of money on a finesse reel, I'd highly consider a Pixy. If you haven't check out the reviews on TT for the Pixy in its variations.

http://www.tackletour.com/reviewdaiwapixy.html

BB

[boloson]

so that's what the 100 & 103 means. i couldn't figure out for the life of me what they meant lol. will check that review out. been meaning to try out daiwas for awhile now

[BigBassin144]

The 100 and 103 are spool sizes. Daiwa also uses 105 and 150. The 150 is a bigger sized spool; the Daiwa Advantage.

But with the 100, 103, and 105 the larger the number, the smaller the spool. Reels like the Pixy or Alphas Finesse feature 105 sized spools. Regular Alphas/Sol and of course certain Steez reels feature larger the 103. And 100 size is more of a standard reel.

BB

[boloson]

thanks for clearing that up for me. so only advantage would be more line vs less? & weight

[BigBassin144]

They key to a smaller smooth is reduced mass. For example, a Sol spool weighs 16 grams, while say a Fuego or standard Zillion spool weights in at 23g. Not too big of a difference, but once you fill it up with line, you're adding quite a bit more weight to the Zillion spool than the Sol.

This reduced spool mass is key to a casting reel's ability to throw light lures (which can be further enhanced with high grade performance bearings). It allows the spool to start up much quicker. This means less of the forward energy of the lure is being wasted on getting the spool turning, hence casting further.

BB

[Tavery5]

If you are looking for a finesse reel, I would take a look at the Shimano 50e, They can be bought for around 150 dollars w/free shipping. The spool weighs 11.4 grams, and filled with 8lb line will come in at around 16grams. Put a set of ABEC 7 bearings in it, and you have yourself a very nice and afordable finesse reel. I can cast a 1/8th oz jig 40 yards with mine routinely.

[BigBassin144]

11.4oz?! How the heck did they do that?!

BB

EDIT: That weight doesn't include a spool bearing, where the 16g Sol spool does. Pixy spool weighs in around 12g I believe, and that's with the bearing.

[Tavery5]

One of the benefits of the SuperFree Pinion design, that and the pinion is held in better alignment. Quantum uses a very similar design with the bearing being frame mounted. Abu uses the Infinity II spool design. All very good designs, but the SF is especially nice for finesse reels.

[boloson]

damn, the pixy 68 cost $449 on ebay from japan. might as well buy a steez from the U.S

[Jrob78]

Your best bet on a Pixy is to search Ebay and some of the Japenese sites for a used one. They came in a variety of colors and they come up for sale all the time, rarely below $300 though. The Pixy is considered THE finesse reel, by a lot of people.

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_from=R4...All-Categories

[Tavery5]

Originally Posted by BigBassin144

11.4oz?! How the heck did they do that?!

BB

EDIT: That weight doesn't include a spool bearing, where the 16g Sol spool does. Pixy spool weighs in around 12g I believe, and that's with the bearing.

With a finesse reel, the weight of the spool is probably one of the top considerations, Shimano has found a design that allows them to produce a lighter spool than Diawa reels that cost 3-4 times as much. Twist it however you want, but the fact is, it is lighter. The Pixy is a very nice reel, but most people will never seriously consider owning one because of their expense. Daiwa knows this, that is why they are not even marketed in the U.S. They tried to market a cheaper but still overpriced version of the Pixy in the Sol, but obviously that did not work out so well either because they discontinued that entire line of reels. Now all the Daiwa folks are excited about their new reel, never mind that by the time you actually get your hands on one here in the states you will have 450 dollars just in the basic reel, and it will still probably need upgraded bearings.

So lets take a look at their current line of reels under 400 dollars. Exceler, TDA, Aggrest, and the lowest version of the Zillion. A couple of good reels in the Exceler and the Zillion and an OK reel in the TDA, and a dud in the Aggrest. Not a very strong line up. Daiwa cares about two groups of people, the enthusiast/collector and saltwater, otherwise they would have put some real effort into plugging the many holes in their porous U.S. freshwater lineup. Their rods are even more lacking, and I wont waste anyone's time talking about them.

I think its great that we have our own Daiwa/Dobyns fanboy here at Bassfishin.com, but give it a break already.

[AUFred]

Originally Posted by Imgoodatwhatido

BPS prolites can be had on ebay worth the money, i have one on my finesse rod and i can throw really light baits easily with little effort. I like to throw a tiny pop r sometimes and i use this reel for it.

Originally Posted by boloson

thanks. ill look into what have been suggested. i mainly wacky rig a 5" worm but actually am looking for something that can cast smaller lighter worms

I own two of the BPS Prolites and love them. The Carbonlite reel by BPS is their replacement and are on sale right now for $100.00. If they are as good as the Prolite they are worth the price.

[BigBassin144]

Originally Posted by Tavery5

With a finesse reel, the weight of the spool is probably one of the top considerations, Shimano has found a design that allows them to produce a lighter spool than Diawa reels that cost 3-4 times as much. Twist it however you want, but the fact is, it is lighter.

The weight of the spool is a huge consideration in finesse reels, but I don't see how you can claim Shimano can make a lighter spool without knowing the weights of the Daiwa spools without bearings? Here are some weights WITH bearings:

Sol - 16g
Pixy - 14g (I was incorrect in my first post)
Presso - 12g (the Presso is 12, not the pixy)
Steez 103 - 14g
Zillion HCL - 13g

The real FACT is that I'm not twisting anything. Without knowing Daiwa spool weights w/o bearings (because the bearing has no effect on the spools weight when turning), your claim that Shimano builds a lighter spool is just speculation.

The braking system of a reel is also very important in a finesse caster. And frankly, Shimano centrifugal brakes suck at low speeds, which is what is encountered with lighter lures. Daiwa's Magforce V and Z brakes work much differently, even more so than standard mag brakes. They adjust much more to changes in spool speed to provide the proper amount of braking force. This allows lighter lures to travel further.

Originally Posted by Tavery5

The Pixy is a very nice reel, but most people will never seriously consider owning one because of their expense. Daiwa knows this, that is why they are not even marketed in the U.S.

I don't believe the reason for not marketing the Pixy to the US is cost... It didn't stop them with the Steez. I believe there isn't enough demand, at any price, for a dedicated finesse reel in the US Market. While bass fishermen make up a decent chunk of the fishermen in the US, those who use dedicated equipment are only a small percent. The majority of Anglers want an all around reel. In the US, we also fall victim to the "more is better" idea when it comes to line capacity. I've met a lot of people who think they need 150yds of 12lb test to fish for bass...

Originally Posted by Tavery5

They tried to market a cheaper but still overpriced version of the Pixy in the Sol, but obviously that did not work out so well either because they discontinued that entire line of reels. Now all the Daiwa folks are excited about their new reel, never mind that by the time you actually get your hands on one here in the states you will have 450 dollars just in the basic reel, and it will still probably need upgraded bearings.

The Sol is not a cheaper version of the Pixy. It is actually the USDM counterpart of the Alphas. The Sol was not designed to fish like a Pixy, so therefore, it can't.

As for being discontinued, I don't know for sure why it was. We also don't know what they'll be introducing at ICAST this year. Quite possibly a replacement. And discontinuing a reel, then replacing with a new reel is no different than completely overhauling a reel and giving it the same name.

As for the new T3 (which is what I assume you're talking about), we actually don't know where it's being released. There's still a chance it may be available to the USDM. Also, no one knows the price. There are just rumors of the low 400s. Bearing upgrades are just that, upgrades. They aren't necessary for the reel to work, and work good. If it were, we could say that the Shimano Curado costs over $200 once you put in some new bearings. Adding in voluntary upgrades to the retail price is just absurd. If you can't or don't want to spend money on upgrades, you don't have to.

Originally Posted by Tavery5

So lets take a look at their current line of reels under 400 dollars. Exceler, TDA, Aggrest, and the lowest version of the Zillion. A couple of good reels in the Exceler and the Zillion and an OK reel in the TDA, and a dud in the Aggrest. Not a very strong line up. Daiwa cares about two groups of people, the enthusiast/collector and saltwater, otherwise they would have put some real effort into plugging the many holes in their porous U.S. freshwater lineup. Their rods are even more lacking, and I wont waste anyone's time talking about them.

Sadly, this is where I agree with you. Daiwa has dropped the ball, I admitted that earlier in this thread. Below $400, there are two reels I'd buy: Zillion and TDA. The Aggrest is a dud. I, and many other Daiwa fans, will wholeheartedly agree with that. But what company hasn't produced a dud? I can think of companies where MOST of their products are duds, but we won't get in to that, lol.

Originally Posted by Tavery5

I think its great that we have our own Daiwa/Dobyns fanboy here at Bassfishin.com, but give it a break already.

I will say I am a fan of both of those products, but or legitimate reasons. It is NOT blind brand loyalty. I've tried multiple brands of reels (even Shimano) and rods (I was actually ready to commit to an arsenal of Shimano Rods before I tried a Dobyns) before choosing these as my favorites. So according to your logic, everyone who has worked to find a favorite brand, then shares his ideas and opinions on that brand is a fanboy?

I'd Also like to comment on the SuperFree Shimano Spool design you talked about earlier. Most companies have a design similar to reduce or eliminate friction. The two best, IMO, are Abu's and Daiwa's because do eliminate friction because the pinion gear doesn't even contact the spool shaft. Where Shimano (and I believe you said Quantum) has the spool shaft going right through the pinion gear, even when the reel is engaged. While they both work (and I couldn't tell you which works better, if one does), I have more confidence in the ones that I know eliminate the friction.

BB

[Tavery5]

Originally Posted by BigBassin144

The weight of the spool is a huge consideration in finesse reels, but I don't see how you can claim Shimano can make a lighter spool without knowing the weights of the Daiwa spools without bearings? Here are some weights WITH bearings:

Sol - 16g
Pixy - 14g (I was incorrect in my first post)
Presso - 12g (the Presso is 12, not the pixy)
Steez 103 - 14g
Zillion HCL - 13g

The real FACT is that I'm not twisting anything. Without knowing Daiwa spool weights w/o bearings (because the bearing has no effect on the spools weight when turning), your claim that Shimano builds a lighter spool is just speculation.

The braking system of a reel is also very important in a finesse caster. And frankly, Shimano centrifugal brakes suck at low speeds, which is what is encountered with lighter lures. Daiwa's Magforce V and Z brakes work much differently, even more so than standard mag brakes. They adjust much more to changes in spool speed to provide the proper amount of braking force. This allows lighter lures to travel further.



I don't believe the reason for not marketing the Pixy to the US is cost... It didn't stop them with the Steez. I believe there isn't enough demand, at any price, for a dedicated finesse reel in the US Market. While bass fishermen make up a decent chunk of the fishermen in the US, those who use dedicated equipment are only a small percent. The majority of Anglers want an all around reel. In the US, we also fall victim to the "more is better" idea when it comes to line capacity. I've met a lot of people who think they need 150yds of 12lb test to fish for bass...



The Sol is not a cheaper version of the Pixy. It is actually the USDM counterpart of the Alphas. The Sol was not designed to fish like a Pixy, so therefore, it can't.

As for being discontinued, I don't know for sure why it was. We also don't know what they'll be introducing at ICAST this year. Quite possibly a replacement. And discontinuing a reel, then replacing with a new reel is no different than completely overhauling a reel and giving it the same name.

As for the new T3 (which is what I assume you're talking about), we actually don't know where it's being released. There's still a chance it may be available to the USDM. Also, no one knows the price. There are just rumors of the low 400s. Bearing upgrades are just that, upgrades. They aren't necessary for the reel to work, and work good. If it were, we could say that the Shimano Curado costs over $200 once you put in some new bearings. Adding in voluntary upgrades to the retail price is just absurd. If you can't or don't want to spend money on upgrades, you don't have to.



Sadly, this is where I agree with you. Daiwa has dropped the ball, I admitted that earlier in this thread. Below $400, there are two reels I'd buy: Zillion and TDA. The Aggrest is a dud. I, and many other Daiwa fans, will wholeheartedly agree with that. But what company hasn't produced a dud? I can think of companies where MOST of their products are duds, but we won't get in to that, lol.



I will say I am a fan of both of those products, but or legitimate reasons. It is NOT blind brand loyalty. I've tried multiple brands of reels (even Shimano) and rods (I was actually ready to commit to an arsenal of Shimano Rods before I tried a Dobyns) before choosing these as my favorites. So according to your logic, everyone who has worked to find a favorite brand, then shares his ideas and opinions on that brand is a fanboy?

I'd Also like to comment on the SuperFree Shimano Spool design you talked about earlier. Most companies have a design similar to reduce or eliminate friction. The two best, IMO, are Abu's and Daiwa's because do eliminate friction because the pinion gear doesn't even contact the spool shaft. Where Shimano (and I believe you said Quantum) has the spool shaft going right through the pinion gear, even when the reel is engaged. While they both work (and I couldn't tell you which works better, if one does), I have more confidence in the ones that I know eliminate the friction.

BB

Listen, I don't want to go into a huge technical debate about which design is better than the other, you have never even had a reel torn apart far enough to have that discussion. You may have seen pictures or parrot what you have heard others say, but your actual hands on knowledge is very limited by your own admission.

When talking about spools, I am not refering to the just the spool, I am talking about the spool assembly, everything attached that is required to make the reel operational. If we were only talking spools you have no idea what you are speaking of. Do you know what a Shimano spool weights with the centrifugal brake assembly removed, do you know what a Diawa weights with the inductor assembly removed. Bottom line is that is does not matter because it takes all those components for it to be functional, and Shimano weights less when you look at from that aspect. You keep bringing more and more expensive reels into the mix to compare to the same design that Shimano uses on their 99 dollar reel. Tell me what is the retail on a Presso, a Pixy, a Steeze. Most of these reels are not even for sale in the U.S. and when you do buy one it will cost 4 times more at least. So try to compare apples to apples from now on. Oh thats right you cant, they have stopped mfg. on any reel that offers any true comparison, so give it break again.

You wanted to bring up friction reduction and talked about ABU and Daiwa having friciton reducing designs that are superior to the SF design of Shimano. The only advantage to the ABU and Diawa design is that you do not have a rotational shaft attached to the spool through the center of the pinion. They both have a shaft that is through the center of the pinon. Diawa has a very flexible shaft that is locked into place with tabs that cannot spin when it contacts the pinion gear. Abu uses a much shorter and non flexible shaft that is allowed to spin when it contacts the pinon, better design in my opinion. But I am not sure either offers any real advantage over the SF design, which is engineered to eliminate the pinion and shaft contact and also elimates the friction point of the additional bearing on the aft of the spool.

You mentioned low spool speeds with lightweight baits, you could not be more wrong. Please tell me how you cast a 1/8 or 1/16 oz bait 40 yards at low spool speeds. Its simple you cant. In fact that is the whole reason the spools are light in the first place so that the reduced mass of the bait you are throwing can generate enough spool speed to cast light baits good distances. Better go back and re-think this one kid.

Bottom line is I enjoy this type of conversation, but I am about to puke from everytime someone makes a post about a rod or reel, you finding a way to make it your personal add for Dobyns or Daiwa, nothing wrong with an opinion but damn dude, you have become exactly what another post you created condemned. Also try to speak a little more from personal experience and not what you read, I'll bet you had less time on the water last year than most on this board.

I am sure you will reply, but know this is my last post on this subject.