ESPN and Fishing.

Fish2win · 08-06-05, 09:56 AM

These guys are starting to get on my nerves. First they try to get all the pros to act like Icconeli, then they cheapen the sport by displaying all those small dinks oin national TV. Now there is absolutely no fishing on ESPN.To people that dont fish the display of those little 12 inch bass was like the big bad sportsman picking on the baby fish.
Pro fisherman on TV used to be a little humble and gave credit to the devine power instesd of acting like a bunch low class bums by yelling and screaming over the catch.
The fact that ESPN threw Jimmy Houston out because he refused to display a beer logo on his boat shows how they really feel about sportsmans rights and religeous freedom. They are reducing the sport to plain old corporate dollars and bottom lines. Fish2win

flfireman · 08-06-05, 10:51 AM

Just now realizing that professional Bassfishing is more of a corporate event than a bunch of guys that just love fishing.

WTL · 08-06-05, 11:45 AM

What we all need to realize to keep these people from doing more of the same is that tournament bass fishing is not a sport, but rather a hobby. It should be promoted and enjoyed as such.

shaft04092 · 08-06-05, 06:58 PM

well put,what happened to doing it for the love of fishing

Marty · 08-06-05, 07:33 PM

Quote:

The fact that ESPN threw Jimmy Houston out because he refused to display a beer logo on his boat shows how they really feel about sportsmans rights and religeous freedom.

I don't think it's fair to say that "ESPN threw Jimmy Houston out." There was the patch rule for one year and Houston, in addition to a few others, decided they'd leave the tour rather than wear the patch. (Actually, they may have fished the tour without the possibility of earning points).

It wasn't a good rule, as evidenced by the fact that it was rescinded after one year. The anglers involved were put in a very difficult position, but it's more accurate to say that ESPN and sponsors instituted a poor rule rather than they threw anglers out.

Fish2win · 08-07-05, 04:08 AM

Marty, Your point is well said and true.All the anglers did have a choice. He could have fished without earning points. It is my understanding that without enough points he would not qualify to fish that circut the next year. He would then have to re-qualify through the federation ranks in order to fish.I may have gotten bad info at the time but that was the scuttlebut on the net .He choose to stand by his principles and standard. That makes him a better man in my book.

Still I feel like I am watching a staged and directed show anytime they go live to an angler catching a bass. Think about this. Four or five years ago you never heard a contestant on TV shout or screeming about catching a fish. Then Icconeli started it. Thats fine if that is his style. Now it seems like they all are doing it. KVD was a mild mannered soft spoken guy that loved bass fishing . Now he trys to act like a gladiator. Its like they are trying to build in some type of mellow drama excitment or emotion that is not real. I have fished amature tournaments since the mid 1970's. I never yell or give off some gutteral sound of supremacy over the fish when I catch a keeper. I never fished with a partner ; draw or pre set, that did either. Its a little fake looking to me. No insult intended to wrestling fans but it comes accross a little like the WWF.

Personally I think it makes a gentlemens sport look a little like PETA portrays it/us.

It is just getting a little too Hollywood commercialized for my taste.It shows no respect for the fish or the sport.What we do is not like football or hockey and the fish dont attack back. It is the art of fooling a fish into hitting or feeding on an inanimate object that we pick and animated in order to achieve the end result. The only primal aspect of the sport is the same as the one that our forfathers had for hasrvesting and gathering in order to eat.

I am sure that there are those that like this style and enjoy that type drama in the sport. That is thier right and I would uphold that right forever. After two years of watching the program evolve under the directing of the corporate underwriters at ESPN, I think the old Ray Scott days were better. Its like the Loud Mouth Bass guys. I never saw those guys compete . They are simple critics that make statements that are designed to stir emotions. When did they ever fish in a competetive event of this nature? Fish2win

08-07-05, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty

I don't think it's fair to say that "ESPN threw Jimmy Houston out." There was the patch rule for one year and Houston, in addition to a few others, decided they'd leave the tour rather than wear the patch. (Actually, they may have fished the tour without the possibility of earning points).

It wasn't a good rule, as evidenced by the fact that it was rescinded after one year. The anglers involved were put in a very difficult position, but it's more accurate to say that ESPN and sponsors instituted a poor rule rather than they threw anglers out.

What is this patch you are talking about? Is it a patch worn on the shirt, ot a decal applied to the boat? Was it for a Beer Company, and Houston was against drinking? Or was he just against promotion for a particular company?

Fish2win · 08-07-05, 11:09 AM

It was a decal on the boat and a patch on the shirt. It was Bush Beer.Houston is an outspoken Christian. His personal beliefs are anti alcoholic beverage. He refused the patch based on his personal convictions. He was not the only one but was the most visible one.

Fish2win

Marty · 08-07-05, 07:09 PM

The more I think about it, the more I think that these guys did actually fish and I think they were eligible for the prize money, but not the points, so you're right, they couldn't qualify for the next year's tour or the Classic.

Jay Yelas was originally against the patch for what he said were religious reasons, but he negotiated with BASS and consented after they decreased the size of the patch. I think he won AOY and used the prize money to finance giving away copies of his book to needy kids or something along those lines.

To our unregistered guest, Busch beer was a brand new sponsor that year for the Angler Of The Year and the rule was that they had to use the Busch patch to be eligible for AOY points (it was known as "no patch, no points"). I never did learn whether it was Busch or ESPN/BASS who was more responsible for the short-lived rule.

Rodman_Rob · 08-07-05, 07:39 PM

just goes to show, country boys and city boys don't mix too well, neither do the words corporate giants and fishing.

WTL · 08-07-05, 08:14 PM

I have no problem with people trying to make a buck, even if those people are part of a corporation. That is capitalism and it is a fine economic system. I just rather would not be a part of their enterprise.

I saw a tourney get out yesterday evening on wheeler, I got there just in time to see all the bass released - somehow I doubt how truely said tourny could be called catch and release when the fish float or waddle away on the surface. Many good things have come out of tourneys, but I fear the negatives may be enough to destroy bass fishing as the true sportsman knows it.

Justin Case · 08-07-05, 08:52 PM

The problem is they used to have those fishing shows to promote the sales of fishing Tackle to the general public. The problem lies in people like we have here on the board. You guys and gals have already bought every peice of fishing tackle that is known to be in existance, so it leaves them jobless. They don't ever want to show you how the pro fished the lure to catch the fish, they just show you footage of them hooking it and carrying on like a high school loser who had just scored with a cheerleader.I would rather see boring lure presentations as to how they use certain lures for certain conditions. Hell I have seen enough yelling and screaming over little squealer fish that would have been culled at your basic local tournament.I like Jimmy Houstons shows even if he has to kiss the fish now and then. He has some pretty good fishing tips that you can use out on the water. P N J

lizardsrule · 08-07-05, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WTL

I have no problem with people trying to make a buck, even if those people are part of a corporation. That is capitalism and it is a fine economic system. I just rather would not be a part of their enterprise.

I saw a tourney get out yesterday evening on wheeler, I got there just in time to see all the bass released - somehow I doubt how truely said tourny could be called catch and release when the fish float or waddle away on the surface. Many good things have come out of tourneys, but I fear the negatives may be enough to destroy bass fishing as the true sportsman knows it.

Sounds like the anglers, and the director were pretty poor if it's a bad as you make it sound. EVERY SINGLE PRE-TOURNAMENT MEETING I have attended they talk about Rejuvenade, Ice and taking good care of your fish. I have yet to see anything close to a bunch of dead fish floating after our tourney. I would venture to guess, either there was just tons of fish caught, and that was just a small percentage of them, or it was some very sorry anglers and director. You lose weight if the fish comes in dead, so it's to everyones benefit for the fish to be alive. I must say we all know we are gonna kill some fish every now and again just from catching them(deep hooked, whatever), and that's part of fishing. But I will also say that how many folks who don't fish tourney's are keeping every fish they catch. It's their right if it's within the state limits, but mostly I see NON-SERIOUS fisherman(most folks usually out on the weekends) keep everything. Many of them eat them, but, I would hazard to say that at least 50% of the fish never see the table, only the trash can, after they decided it was too much to clean them, or cook them. I just hate to hear stories like you just related, but unfortunately for all of us it does happen.

Fish2win,

I understand your points, however I must disagree with the size of fish shown was poor taste. I live in the midwest, and many of the fish are exactly that size. It's realistic and what they were catching. It's pretty hard to show 3, 4, 5, 6 lbers and bigger if they aren't caught

I love to see the lunkers too, but at least half of us live in the North, which doesn't grow bass that big on average. I do dislike the "Gamemanship" crap also, but as you already stated. It's "SHOW ME THE MONEY" nowadays, and look at the age group from say 13 to 21. What are they all about nowadays, same as IKE, so they relate well, which brings in more viewers, which brings in more off the wall advertisers. Now you younger guys who are gonna blow up about that, I don't mean to say it's all in you age group, but a whole bunch of that age group. Just like SEX SELLS, so does the Trash Talking Egotistical Loudmouths. How do you think this idiotic new fad of Reality TV got started. I agree with where ESPN is taking it, but on the other side they are Growing the Sport. Looks like another Jeff Gordan thing. All the old time Nascar Fans seem to dislike him fervently, but the newer generation just loves the guy. So the market and money will go with what works, whether we like it or not.

Lizards

WTL · 08-07-05, 09:15 PM

Lizards, I just happened to be putting my boat in the lake as 2 or 3 guys emptied their bags. The fish were alive, just in very bad shape - and they were released into 80 something degree water which all in all does not make me feel positive about those fish' chance of survival. You know me, I'm not a catch and release nut I actually see the good of some harvest as a tool for fish management, but if this is the type of catch and release that most tourney fish are subject to its certainly a bad thing for numbers.

Fish2win · 08-07-05, 10:59 PM

WTL. Wheeler is a Tennessee River Res . I fish Loudon and Watts Bar in tournamnets occasionally. They are the first and second Tennessee River Res in the total chain. This river has a problem over much of its length in the summer. The water starts to stratisfy and a thermocline is set. The upper layer of water is very oxygen poor due to the heat. Most of the better fish come from depths that correspond to the thermocline. Right now at Norris the thermocline is at 28 to 31 feet . Most of the fish are within 5 feet of this depth.
Several years ago when I was fishing BASS affiliated club tournaments, the club that I fished with did a study along with Tennessee Tech. We gave all our fish to them at each weigh-in. They kept the fish in a penned area that afforded them depth but still restricted the fish to one cove. During the summer the delayed mortality was horable. It was worse for day tournamnets than night but still horrible. The fish in the tournamnets held in the spring , fall and winter had a much lower mortality.
Placing the fish in the live well and hauling it around for 8 or 10 hours greatly stressed the fish. There was a delayed mortality rate at Douglas that was as high as 70% for summer time day tournaments. The study group was devided and 1/2 were given catch and release formulas and the other none. The mortality of the fish that were treated with catch and release was lower but still unacceptable.
That club no longer has tournaments during July and August and the June and September tournaments are at night.
The statement about it being legal and how many fish are killed by non catch and release fisherman is true but we must police ourselves with a much higher standard.Our example is the standard for the public as a whole.
The delayed mortality problem is much worse in the southern states than the north. The water temps are much higher for a much longer period of time. The PPM of desolved oxygen is much lower at live well depths. Proper handling of fish is a must. If you allow a fish to lay on the boats carpet. Handle it unnessarily outside the mouth or injure the fish in anyway you have sighned its death warrant.
We are supposed to be informed conservationalist that do all we can to protect the resoarce. Maybe we can justify a few dead fish in our minds . The question is how does this appear to the general public or the family that brim fishes twice a year. They see the weigh-in and see waist. This is what PETA would have them see. We must change the way we do some things in tournaments or we could loose the right to have them. Lower limits, shorter tournaments or more frequent weigh in intervals may be answers. Fish2win

08-06-05, 09:56 AM	#1
Fish2win BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Norris Tennessee Posts: 469	ESPN and Fishing. These guys are starting to get on my nerves. First they try to get all the pros to act like Icconeli, then they cheapen the sport by displaying all those small dinks oin national TV. Now there is absolutely no fishing on ESPN.To people that dont fish the display of those little 12 inch bass was like the big bad sportsman picking on the baby fish. Pro fisherman on TV used to be a little humble and gave credit to the devine power instesd of acting like a bunch low class bums by yelling and screaming over the catch. The fact that ESPN threw Jimmy Houston out because he refused to display a beer logo on his boat shows how they really feel about sportsmans rights and religeous freedom. They are reducing the sport to plain old corporate dollars and bottom lines. Fish2win __________________ Norris Tennessee set the hook! They dont have hands.

08-06-05, 10:51 AM	#2
flfireman BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Palm Bay, Fl Posts: 2,751	Just now realizing that professional Bassfishing is more of a corporate event than a bunch of guys that just love fishing. __________________ In the Lord all things are possible.

08-06-05, 11:45 AM	#3
WTL BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Huntsville, Al Posts: 7,466	What we all need to realize to keep these people from doing more of the same is that tournament bass fishing is not a sport, but rather a hobby. It should be promoted and enjoyed as such. __________________ Selling live waterdogs for less since 2005.

08-07-05, 04:08 AM	#6
Fish2win BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Norris Tennessee Posts: 469	Marty, Your point is well said and true.All the anglers did have a choice. He could have fished without earning points. It is my understanding that without enough points he would not qualify to fish that circut the next year. He would then have to re-qualify through the federation ranks in order to fish.I may have gotten bad info at the time but that was the scuttlebut on the net .He choose to stand by his principles and standard. That makes him a better man in my book. Still I feel like I am watching a staged and directed show anytime they go live to an angler catching a bass. Think about this. Four or five years ago you never heard a contestant on TV shout or screeming about catching a fish. Then Icconeli started it. Thats fine if that is his style. Now it seems like they all are doing it. KVD was a mild mannered soft spoken guy that loved bass fishing . Now he trys to act like a gladiator. Its like they are trying to build in some type of mellow drama excitment or emotion that is not real. I have fished amature tournaments since the mid 1970's. I never yell or give off some gutteral sound of supremacy over the fish when I catch a keeper. I never fished with a partner ; draw or pre set, that did either. Its a little fake looking to me. No insult intended to wrestling fans but it comes accross a little like the WWF. Personally I think it makes a gentlemens sport look a little like PETA portrays it/us. It is just getting a little too Hollywood commercialized for my taste.It shows no respect for the fish or the sport.What we do is not like football or hockey and the fish dont attack back. It is the art of fooling a fish into hitting or feeding on an inanimate object that we pick and animated in order to achieve the end result. The only primal aspect of the sport is the same as the one that our forfathers had for hasrvesting and gathering in order to eat. I am sure that there are those that like this style and enjoy that type drama in the sport. That is thier right and I would uphold that right forever. After two years of watching the program evolve under the directing of the corporate underwriters at ESPN, I think the old Ray Scott days were better. Its like the Loud Mouth Bass guys. I never saw those guys compete . They are simple critics that make statements that are designed to stir emotions. When did they ever fish in a competetive event of this nature? Fish2win __________________ Norris Tennessee set the hook! They dont have hands.

08-07-05, 11:09 AM	#8
Fish2win BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Norris Tennessee Posts: 469	It was a decal on the boat and a patch on the shirt. It was Bush Beer.Houston is an outspoken Christian. His personal beliefs are anti alcoholic beverage. He refused the patch based on his personal convictions. He was not the only one but was the most visible one. Fish2win __________________ Norris Tennessee set the hook! They dont have hands.

08-06-05, 06:58 PM	#4
shaft04092 BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 112	well put,what happened to doing it for the love of fishing

08-07-05, 07:09 PM	#9
Marty BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 1,580	The more I think about it, the more I think that these guys did actually fish and I think they were eligible for the prize money, but not the points, so you're right, they couldn't qualify for the next year's tour or the Classic. Jay Yelas was originally against the patch for what he said were religious reasons, but he negotiated with BASS and consented after they decreased the size of the patch. I think he won AOY and used the prize money to finance giving away copies of his book to needy kids or something along those lines. To our unregistered guest, Busch beer was a brand new sponsor that year for the Angler Of The Year and the rule was that they had to use the Busch patch to be eligible for AOY points (it was known as "no patch, no points"). I never did learn whether it was Busch or ESPN/BASS who was more responsible for the short-lived rule. __________________ Meeting expenses is easy...they're EVERYWHERE The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits Rochester, NY

08-07-05, 07:39 PM	#10
Rodman_Rob BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ocala, FL. 1/2 hour southwest of Rodman Posts: 1,702	just goes to show, country boys and city boys don't mix too well, neither do the words corporate giants and fishing. __________________ Lizardsrule may not be able to drive a boat, but he can sure put you on the fish!

08-07-05, 08:14 PM	#11
WTL BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Huntsville, Al Posts: 7,466	I have no problem with people trying to make a buck, even if those people are part of a corporation. That is capitalism and it is a fine economic system. I just rather would not be a part of their enterprise. I saw a tourney get out yesterday evening on wheeler, I got there just in time to see all the bass released - somehow I doubt how truely said tourny could be called catch and release when the fish float or waddle away on the surface. Many good things have come out of tourneys, but I fear the negatives may be enough to destroy bass fishing as the true sportsman knows it. __________________ Selling live waterdogs for less since 2005.

08-07-05, 08:52 PM	#12
Justin Case BassFishin.Com Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bath, NY Posts: 70	The problem is they used to have those fishing shows to promote the sales of fishing Tackle to the general public. The problem lies in people like we have here on the board. You guys and gals have already bought every peice of fishing tackle that is known to be in existance, so it leaves them jobless. They don't ever want to show you how the pro fished the lure to catch the fish, they just show you footage of them hooking it and carrying on like a high school loser who had just scored with a cheerleader.I would rather see boring lure presentations as to how they use certain lures for certain conditions. Hell I have seen enough yelling and screaming over little squealer fish that would have been culled at your basic local tournament.I like Jimmy Houstons shows even if he has to kiss the fish now and then. He has some pretty good fishing tips that you can use out on the water. P N J __________________ xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxx

08-07-05, 09:15 PM	#14
WTL BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Huntsville, Al Posts: 7,466	Lizards, I just happened to be putting my boat in the lake as 2 or 3 guys emptied their bags. The fish were alive, just in very bad shape - and they were released into 80 something degree water which all in all does not make me feel positive about those fish' chance of survival. You know me, I'm not a catch and release nut I actually see the good of some harvest as a tool for fish management, but if this is the type of catch and release that most tourney fish are subject to its certainly a bad thing for numbers. __________________ Selling live waterdogs for less since 2005.

08-07-05, 10:59 PM	#15
Fish2win BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Norris Tennessee Posts: 469	WTL. Wheeler is a Tennessee River Res . I fish Loudon and Watts Bar in tournamnets occasionally. They are the first and second Tennessee River Res in the total chain. This river has a problem over much of its length in the summer. The water starts to stratisfy and a thermocline is set. The upper layer of water is very oxygen poor due to the heat. Most of the better fish come from depths that correspond to the thermocline. Right now at Norris the thermocline is at 28 to 31 feet . Most of the fish are within 5 feet of this depth. Several years ago when I was fishing BASS affiliated club tournaments, the club that I fished with did a study along with Tennessee Tech. We gave all our fish to them at each weigh-in. They kept the fish in a penned area that afforded them depth but still restricted the fish to one cove. During the summer the delayed mortality was horable. It was worse for day tournamnets than night but still horrible. The fish in the tournamnets held in the spring , fall and winter had a much lower mortality. Placing the fish in the live well and hauling it around for 8 or 10 hours greatly stressed the fish. There was a delayed mortality rate at Douglas that was as high as 70% for summer time day tournaments. The study group was devided and 1/2 were given catch and release formulas and the other none. The mortality of the fish that were treated with catch and release was lower but still unacceptable. That club no longer has tournaments during July and August and the June and September tournaments are at night. The statement about it being legal and how many fish are killed by non catch and release fisherman is true but we must police ourselves with a much higher standard.Our example is the standard for the public as a whole. The delayed mortality problem is much worse in the southern states than the north. The water temps are much higher for a much longer period of time. The PPM of desolved oxygen is much lower at live well depths. Proper handling of fish is a must. If you allow a fish to lay on the boats carpet. Handle it unnessarily outside the mouth or injure the fish in anyway you have sighned its death warrant. We are supposed to be informed conservationalist that do all we can to protect the resoarce. Maybe we can justify a few dead fish in our minds . The question is how does this appear to the general public or the family that brim fishes twice a year. They see the weigh-in and see waist. This is what PETA would have them see. We must change the way we do some things in tournaments or we could loose the right to have them. Lower limits, shorter tournaments or more frequent weigh in intervals may be answers. Fish2win __________________ Norris Tennessee set the hook! They dont have hands.

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