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Old 02-19-12, 02:49 PM   #1
Jrob78
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Default "Xfast action, soft tip"

Quote:
Originally Posted by joedog View Post
I was visiting some of the lesser forums. A couple have a very high tournament fishing population. Over and over folks were making coments like this, "I use a 7' MH fast action or extra fast action but you have to get one with a soft tip!" This was a frogging rod discussion. Again, extra fast action tells you there is a soft tip, right?
Fast action means you have a soft tip but not quite as soft as an extra fast. Right?

Tavery5, am I still not understanding? These folks are miss using terms, right?
Or at least repeating terms, right?

One 'yes your right' answer requested.

I understand what a soft tip means but it is really hard to explain without making things more confusing. It also illustrates why power and action alone don't always tell the whole story of a rod.

Action simply tells you where on a blank the flex starts. Power simply tells you how much weight it takes to fully flex the blank. Power and action together give you an idea of where on the blank your rod will bend and how much weight it will take to make it bend. That's what the chart on the other thread is for.

A soft tip means exactly that, the very tip of the rod flexes very easily. An extra fast action means that the last 1/5 of the rod flexes, a soft tip means that that last 1/5 flexes easily. It very quickly flexes into the back bone of the rod which is very strong, the soft tip allows you to cast and work lighter baits like frogs but still quickly get into the powerful back bone of the rod to get fish out of cover. Action will tell you where a blank flexes but it doesn't explain how it flexes and how that correlates with power.

This is why TT uses the R.O.D. system for measuring blanks and other systems like Common Cents are also used to gather more accurate measurements of blanks, from tip to butt. Blanks are made by overlapping layers of carbon fiber and glue. How and where those layers are placed effect how and where the finished blank will bend and how much weight it will take to bend. It is possible to make one section super strong while making another section super light. Action and power do tell you part of the story but not all of it. Add to that the fact that there are no industry standards for any of this, things get even more foggy. I think this is also why technique specific labels on rods are becoming more prevalent. A 7' heavy/fast rod that is labeled "frogging" might not be the same as a 7' heavy/fast rod that is labeled "c-rig" from the same manufacturer. They are both technically 7' heavy/fast rods but they have a different taper and flex differently.

I'm sure this probably hasn't really helped anyone's understanding but the truth is, without doing your own deflection tests on different blanks, or learning to make sense of someone else's deflection tests, you won't fully understand the characteristics of a given rod until you've fish it yourself.
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Old 02-19-12, 03:09 PM   #2
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Helped Me!
I now came to the conclusion that I have nice rods with varying strengths and actions that have brought me hours of smiles!
Am I FINALLY giving the right description?

Seriously Tav, I truely do appreciate you taking the time to help me, I know it can be challenging!
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Old 02-19-12, 03:23 PM   #3
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That's what makes comparison across brands difficult at times. One brand's MH/f will feel like another's M/f, etc. The materials in a blank also affect the feel of a rod. So many things to consider when choosing a rod brand for yourself.
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Old 02-19-12, 04:39 PM   #4
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Thanks Jrob this was incredibly helpful. I like when stuff is explained in some detail. Power/Action of rods still boggles my mind.

This helped me out A LOT!

Someone should start a rod reviewing website that compares all rods on the market, compare their actions and powers ect.

I dont know? Sounds like itd be a good idea?
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Old 02-19-12, 06:17 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrob78 View Post
I understand what a soft tip means but it is really hard to explain without making things more confusing. It also illustrates why power and action alone don't always tell the whole story of a rod.

Action simply tells you where on a blank the flex starts. Power simply tells you how much weight it takes to fully flex the blank. Power and action together give you an idea of where on the blank your rod will bend and how much weight it will take to make it bend. That's what the chart on the other thread is for.

A soft tip means exactly that, the very tip of the rod flexes very easily. An extra fast action means that the last 1/5 of the rod flexes, a soft tip means that that last 1/5 flexes easily. It very quickly flexes into the back bone of the rod which is very strong, the soft tip allows you to cast and work lighter baits like frogs but still quickly get into the powerful back bone of the rod to get fish out of cover. Action will tell you where a blank flexes but it doesn't explain how it flexes and how that correlates with power.

This is why TT uses the R.O.D. system for measuring blanks and other systems like Common Cents are also used to gather more accurate measurements of blanks, from tip to butt. Blanks are made by overlapping layers of carbon fiber and glue. How and where those layers are placed effect how and where the finished blank will bend and how much weight it will take to bend. It is possible to make one section super strong while making another section super light. Action and power do tell you part of the story but not all of it. Add to that the fact that there are no industry standards for any of this, things get even more foggy. I think this is also why technique specific labels on rods are becoming more prevalent. A 7' heavy/fast rod that is labeled "frogging" might not be the same as a 7' heavy/fast rod that is labeled "c-rig" from the same manufacturer. They are both technically 7' heavy/fast rods but they have a different taper and flex differently.

I'm sure this probably hasn't really helped anyone's understanding but the truth is, without doing your own deflection tests on different blanks, or learning to make sense of someone else's deflection tests, you won't fully understand the characteristics of a given rod until you've fish it yourself.
Very well put Joe. That was a hell of a job of explaining it.
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Old 02-19-12, 06:33 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carolina-rig-01 View Post
very well put joe. That was a hell of a job of explaining it.

x2................
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Old 02-19-12, 08:19 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Tavery5 View Post
x2................
X3......if someone could devise a true and consistant rating system it would be a big help, especially for online purchases.
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Old 02-19-12, 09:05 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by kennethdaysale View Post
X3......if someone could devise a true and consistent rating system it would be a big help, especially for online purchases.
Thanks guys, maybe someone else can add something to what I've said to help clarify things a little more.

I agree that a consistent rating system would be a huge help. The problem is, there are a few different systems out there but the people using them (rod builders) can't agree on which one is better. Plus, people already don't understand action and power, it only gets more complicated from there. Add to that, rod companies that still put "medium action" on their rods, it's quite an uphill battle.

The problem with just going technique specific is that it is a purely subjective thing, what one person thinks is a good spinnerbait rod, another won't. It also doesn't encourage people to think for themselves.
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Last edited by Jrob78; 02-19-12 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 02-20-12, 02:15 PM   #9
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You're right. As of now the Common Cents system is the closest thing we have to measure rod ratings. It's catching on faster with fly rod manufacturers many of whom are starting to publish CCS measurements. We can only hope others will catch up. It will still be personal preference in applying certin specs to specific situations though.
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