Leaders; I get it, but I don’t get it.

fish4942 · 01-20-11, 06:08 PM

So I understand why leaders are used on the end of different lines, but I don’t get why. That probably doesn’t make one bit of since to anyone, but here’s what I mean…
I see anglers using 50lb braid line for flipping and pitching heavy cover with a 20lb fluoro leader. I understand the leader is used so the fish aren’t “spooked”. But doesn’t the 20lb fluoro undermine the purpose of the 50lb braid? To me it would seem like the braid has been compromised because of not only the 20lb fluoro, but the knot used to join the lines now becomes the weak link. Why not just use the 20lb fluoro altogether since it’s the direct connection to the fish? I know there are mega knots that people tie with excellent strength and great non-slip factors, but the leader is subject to the same hazards as the braid when pitched in the heavy cover / weeds/ brush, etc. Or why not just use the braid only? I just don’t get it. What am I missing? Do most of you use a leader with your braid?

cassidyta · 01-20-11, 06:23 PM

Fish,

This was a topic I had with C-rig the other night. A lot of folks will use the braid on a Carolina Rig. this gives them the max sensitivity where the weight makes contact with the bottom, but still allows for line less likely to spook the fish.
On spinning rigs for drop shot, the braid is a more manageable and in the long run cheaper solution then going with straight fluoro.
The third option that I know of is in saltwater setups. The braid will cut through the kepl while you bring the fish in.
Personally, I seldom use any leader except with some swimbaits. In those cases, it allows me to use one rodd and reel where I can switch up line size.

islandbass · 01-20-11, 07:06 PM

You might have a case for poorly made knots. However, if the knots are properly tied, it would not be an issue of concern to me.

On good reason for using a leader of lesser strength is to help the angler break off when necessary. Anyone who has ever gotten snagged with 50# braid knows how hard it can to bust it. And if you are forced to cut it, the amount of line lossed could be enough to peeve me. Worse yet, that dangling line could eventually tangle up animals and other things and is now litter in the water. That 20# fc leader you have on would make breaking off far easier and the other plus is your main line should be in great shape.

Go pure fluoro or braid? From a point of economics, it could be seen as a waste since much of the line on the spool, spinning or casting, will never ever see battle. It is nothing more than filler, right? Using a leader enables the angler to use 100% of this expensive line, fc or otherwise.

There is no right or wrong here, but a matter of devising systems that suit our needs. This is a great subject, btw.

bassboogieman · 01-20-11, 07:13 PM

I agree with Islandbass that the primary reason is to be able to break off a hangup with the loss of the least amount of line as a result.

50# braid to 20# leader is a good match as the diameters are close. I'm of the opinion that similar sized (diameter) lines result in the best knots. And really, unless a bass is hung up under a dock, in weeds or brush, 20# is overkill in moving a bass. Note - a bass in the water is virtually weightless, so moving a 6# bass with 6# line (or less) isn't that difficult - WHILE IT'S IN THE WATER. It does however become an issue when a bass comes out of the water or digs for cover. Some resistance and be generated by the bass swimming, but not all that much as the rod will absorb the shock of a surging bass. #20 line will be enough to haul amost any bass in to the boat. I've caught many tuna in the 40 - 60 pound class on 20# line with no problem - but then again, we don't swing them into the boat either.

Clear water conditions, flurocarbon leaders may become almost necessary to get bit. Braid in clear water can be seen fairly easliy, spooking already shy fish.

Marty · 01-20-11, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Clear water conditions, flurocarbon leaders may become almost necessary to get bit. Braid in clear water can be seen fairly easliy, spooking already shy fish.

I think this is not definitive, but more a matter of angler preference and confidence. I fish leaderless braid, often in very clear water and have no evidence that I'm at a disadvantage.

There is no doubt that braid is easily visible, but that doesn't mean it spooks fish. I don't know why a strand of line would spook a fish any more than some lures. Finally, although the braid is seen, there's no evidence I'm aware of that says the fish can make the connection between the line and lure.

walkeraviator · 01-21-11, 07:44 AM

Im with you fellers...

fish4942 · 01-21-11, 09:27 AM

So what's the best / a good not for joinging lines?

cassidyta · 01-21-11, 10:07 AM

I use the Alberto knot. I have not had any issues with it.
http://www.stripersonline.com/Pages/...tos_knot.shtml

Prior to using the Alberto, I always used the Albright.
http://www.animatedknots.com/albright/index.php

I never had a knot fail, but I would have some issues with it unraveling when i tried to cut the tag ends.

Rebbasser · 01-27-11, 12:55 AM

I like the double uni knot.

I use a leader in clear water,but don't worry about it in stained/muddy water.

George_Welcome · 01-27-11, 04:36 AM

http://www.fishermansheadquarters.co...ower_pro_knots

50# braid is equivalent to 12# mono

Uni or Albright

Backwater Charlie · 01-27-11, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fish4942

So I understand why leaders are used on the end of different lines, but I don’t get why. That probably doesn’t make one bit of since to anyone, but here’s what I mean…
I see anglers using 50lb braid line for flipping and pitching heavy cover with a 20lb fluoro leader. I understand the leader is used so the fish aren’t “spooked”. But doesn’t the 20lb fluoro undermine the purpose of the 50lb braid? To me it would seem like the braid has been compromised because of not only the 20lb fluoro, but the knot used to join the lines now becomes the weak link. Why not just use the 20lb fluoro altogether since it’s the direct connection to the fish? I know there are mega knots that people tie with excellent strength and great non-slip factors, but the leader is subject to the same hazards as the braid when pitched in the heavy cover / weeds/ brush, etc. Or why not just use the braid only? I just don’t get it. What am I missing? Do most of you use a leader with your braid?

About the whole "heavy braid leader/lighter fluoro or mono leader" ordeal, a lot of people do this because, what if you take a 40 or 50-yard cast and get hung on something? Not that big of a problem for the boat angler, but for a shore angler you're more than likely going to cut off that expensive braided line. You've just lost a LOT of money! Instead, when using a leader, you can pull on your line and HOPEFULLY your leader will break. Just a leader, re-tie and start fishing again..

Just my two cents.

fish4942 · 01-28-11, 09:21 AM

Why not use a swivel to join the 2 lines together instead of only a knot?

sharrison · 01-28-11, 02:40 PM

A swivel won't go through the guides. If you used a swivel you would have to keep the leader real short or it would be hard to cast.

01-20-11, 06:08 PM	#1
fish4942 BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 181	Leaders; I get it, but I don’t get it. So I understand why leaders are used on the end of different lines, but I don’t get why. That probably doesn’t make one bit of since to anyone, but here’s what I mean… I see anglers using 50lb braid line for flipping and pitching heavy cover with a 20lb fluoro leader. I understand the leader is used so the fish aren’t “spooked”. But doesn’t the 20lb fluoro undermine the purpose of the 50lb braid? To me it would seem like the braid has been compromised because of not only the 20lb fluoro, but the knot used to join the lines now becomes the weak link. Why not just use the 20lb fluoro altogether since it’s the direct connection to the fish? I know there are mega knots that people tie with excellent strength and great non-slip factors, but the leader is subject to the same hazards as the braid when pitched in the heavy cover / weeds/ brush, etc. Or why not just use the braid only? I just don’t get it. What am I missing? Do most of you use a leader with your braid?

01-20-11, 07:06 PM	#3
islandbass BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: WA State Posts: 1,783	You might have a case for poorly made knots. However, if the knots are properly tied, it would not be an issue of concern to me. On good reason for using a leader of lesser strength is to help the angler break off when necessary. Anyone who has ever gotten snagged with 50# braid knows how hard it can to bust it. And if you are forced to cut it, the amount of line lossed could be enough to peeve me. Worse yet, that dangling line could eventually tangle up animals and other things and is now litter in the water. That 20# fc leader you have on would make breaking off far easier and the other plus is your main line should be in great shape. Go pure fluoro or braid? From a point of economics, it could be seen as a waste since much of the line on the spool, spinning or casting, will never ever see battle. It is nothing more than filler, right? Using a leader enables the angler to use 100% of this expensive line, fc or otherwise. There is no right or wrong here, but a matter of devising systems that suit our needs. This is a great subject, btw. __________________ ARX "If people concentrated on the really important things in life, there'd be a shortage of fishing poles." Doug Larson (Shimano 2005 Reel Catalog) Last edited by islandbass; 01-20-11 at 07:54 PM.

01-20-11, 07:13 PM	#4
bassboogieman BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Parkesburg, Pa. Posts: 3,762	I agree with Islandbass that the primary reason is to be able to break off a hangup with the loss of the least amount of line as a result. 50# braid to 20# leader is a good match as the diameters are close. I'm of the opinion that similar sized (diameter) lines result in the best knots. And really, unless a bass is hung up under a dock, in weeds or brush, 20# is overkill in moving a bass. Note - a bass in the water is virtually weightless, so moving a 6# bass with 6# line (or less) isn't that difficult - WHILE IT'S IN THE WATER. It does however become an issue when a bass comes out of the water or digs for cover. Some resistance and be generated by the bass swimming, but not all that much as the rod will absorb the shock of a surging bass. #20 line will be enough to haul amost any bass in to the boat. I've caught many tuna in the 40 - 60 pound class on 20# line with no problem - but then again, we don't swing them into the boat either. Clear water conditions, flurocarbon leaders may become almost necessary to get bit. Braid in clear water can be seen fairly easliy, spooking already shy fish. Last edited by bassboogieman; 01-20-11 at 07:24 PM.

01-21-11, 10:07 AM	#8
cassidyta BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,928	I use the Alberto knot. I have not had any issues with it. http://www.stripersonline.com/Pages/...tos_knot.shtml Prior to using the Alberto, I always used the Albright. http://www.animatedknots.com/albright/index.php I never had a knot fail, but I would have some issues with it unraveling when i tried to cut the tag ends. __________________ If you have ever wondered if you should retie, the answer is yes.

01-27-11, 12:55 AM	#9
Rebbasser BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 10,141	I like the double uni knot. I use a leader in clear water,but don't worry about it in stained/muddy water. __________________ It's happened to the best of them: John 21:3

01-20-11, 06:23 PM	#2
cassidyta BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,928	Fish, This was a topic I had with C-rig the other night. A lot of folks will use the braid on a Carolina Rig. this gives them the max sensitivity where the weight makes contact with the bottom, but still allows for line less likely to spook the fish. On spinning rigs for drop shot, the braid is a more manageable and in the long run cheaper solution then going with straight fluoro. The third option that I know of is in saltwater setups. The braid will cut through the kepl while you bring the fish in. Personally, I seldom use any leader except with some swimbaits. In those cases, it allows me to use one rodd and reel where I can switch up line size. __________________ If you have ever wondered if you should retie, the answer is yes.

01-21-11, 07:44 AM	#6
walkeraviator BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 1,119	Im with you fellers...

01-21-11, 09:27 AM	#7
fish4942 BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 181	So what's the best / a good not for joinging lines?

01-27-11, 04:36 AM	#10
George_Welcome BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Sebastian, Florida Posts: 207	http://www.fishermansheadquarters.co...ower_pro_knots 50# braid is equivalent to 12# mono Uni or Albright __________________ George & Scott Imagination Bassin Guide Services 772 532-7440 Sebastian, Florida http://www.imaginationbassin.com

01-28-11, 09:21 AM	#12
fish4942 BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 181	Why not use a swivel to join the 2 lines together instead of only a knot?

01-28-11, 02:40 PM	#13
sharrison BassFishin.Com Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 15	A swivel won't go through the guides. If you used a swivel you would have to keep the leader real short or it would be hard to cast.

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