Ok i will...........

kennethdaysale · 10-04-11, 09:49 PM

How much help do the pro's with deep pockets get from up to the minute scouting reports. Do yall think that if everyone showed up at a b.a.s.s. Or flw event with the same blank slate (legal pre-fishing being a given) that some of the perennial top 10 would somehow begin to struggle????

nofearengineer · 10-04-11, 09:51 PM

I know those guys have to have their scouts.
Seriously, how could you ever prove anything?

Not that it's a big deal, as even if I had those guys scouting for me, I'd still get skunked somehow.

kennethdaysale · 10-04-11, 09:58 PM

Well It's not a big deal to me, actually less than a small deal, but to those guys living from tourney to tourney that have the same skills as the household names but not the "edge" it's probably a little discouraging. I'm no particular fan of KVD or Gerald Swindle for that matter but I know this is a matter of no small contention between them. Just wondering what some of you guys might think?

Tavery5 · 10-04-11, 10:00 PM

I don't think that it would make much difference , the creme will always rise to the top. With the equipment these guys have, and their ability to use it, they will generally have a good pattern figured out by the time they are done pre fishing. Think about it , when was the last time you seen a guy win a tournament wire to wire, don't happen very often. I agree that scouting exists, but don't think it is a major part of who is in the lead for AOY or makes the classic at the end of the year.

kennethdaysale · 10-04-11, 10:08 PM

Well T5 you may be right, I will concede that the AOY is probably not that consistant because of scouting. But fishing isn't a sport like golf...I'm not a big Tiger fan but I'd be the first to admit that for a long time his talent just dwarfed the field...think Michael Jordan etc etc. And I'd further concede that there are plenty of pro fisherman that thought just because they dominated at a regional level that they could do the same in the majors but............??????

Tavery5 · 10-04-11, 10:22 PM

I don't think it matters what sport you talk about, there will always be a small group that is just better than the majority, and within that group there will always be a couple that are just that much better than the rest.... and then there is KVD

Jrob78 · 10-04-11, 10:23 PM

I think what you're talking about might have an effect, occasionally, on a specific tournament here or there. I think local knowledge plays a big role in some of the open tournaments where local guys come in and do well. For the most part though, everybody has the same info available to them, it's how they use that info that makes all the difference. Some guys are better at taking bits of information and very quickly turning that into a productive pattern. Nobody has the resources or the time to get specific inside "scouting" information on every lake they fish around the country, at the specific time they are fishing said lake. Even if one guy could consistently get that kind of information, conditions change hourly sometimes. What works on day one probably won't still be working on day 4.

MIbasser · 10-04-11, 11:26 PM

I know guys that used to fish against KVD before he became a turning pro here in Michigan. He still kicked a$$ (not all the time) back in his early 20's. One guy I fish with in our club actually finished higher then him in a tournament and kept the official standings. But he and G-man are pro's for a reason. They are really that good.

And I will disagree with you about fishing and golf... They are almost exactly the same. Have you ever been 200 yards away and have to hit a low hook around a tree? Or at the bow of your boat in a 10mph wind and make a pinpoint cast between a dock and a boat? A little error and you hit the tree or the boat and the chance of catching the bass or getting on the green is now gone. Do you ever just stand at the tee box and grab the old 1 wood and wack away?? Nope, not if you're good you don't. You look at the hole layout just like you would look at a lake for contours.

kennethdaysale · 10-05-11, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MIbasser

I know guys that used to fish against KVD before he became a turning pro here in Michigan. He still kicked a$$ (not all the time) back in his early 20's. One guy I fish with in our club actually finished higher then him in a tournament and kept the official standings. But he and G-man are pro's for a reason. They are really that good.

And I will disagree with you about fishing and golf... They are almost exactly the same. Have you ever been 200 yards away and have to hit a low hook around a tree? Or at the bow of your boat in a 10mph wind and make a pinpoint cast between a dock and a boat? A little error and you hit the tree or the boat and the chance of catching the bass or getting on the green is now gone. Do you ever just stand at the tee box and grab the old 1 wood and wack away?? Nope, not if you're good you don't. You look at the hole layout just like you would look at a lake for contours.

I hear everones opinions but my original question remains. Who would kick and scream if scouting was banned and who would grin?
As for the fishing/golf thing, the only real similarity I see is that they are both individual sports where muscle memory-training-hand eye coordination-fine motor skills and focus are important. If they were almost exactly the same then the tee box would be on unbalanced wheels, the fairways would be undulating like breakers at high tide, the greens would be 20' wide and bermed in the center with water on each side and of course the cups would be invisible and you'd just have to intuitively roll over them to advance to the next hole.

Bryan · 10-05-11, 08:51 AM

I think the way they did the first Classic was neat. Throw everybody on a plane and tell them the destination mid-flight.

I know they can't do the Classic that way anymore, but it would be cool to see another tournament like that some time. Certainly levels the playing field.

Dogmatic · 10-05-11, 10:07 AM

Is it illegal to obtain "local knowledge" of a lake prior to a tourney?

kennethdaysale · 10-05-11, 10:16 AM

sitting around the bait shop picking brains isn't.......paid scouts are. Grey at best.

gonefishin3 · 10-05-11, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogmatic

Is it illegal to obtain "local knowledge" of a lake prior to a tourney?

Its technacally illigal to recieve Private information. its perfectly legal to obtain Public information. Anything said allowed in a baitshop or "dock talk" is legal. Calling your amigo isnt legal. Remember if your a guide somewhere and your phone rings and you pick it up and the voice says hey this is KVD i need some tips.... who isnt gonna give it to him? Not saying he does or they will rat him out... I dont know just sayin.

kennethdaysale · 10-05-11, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gonefishin3

Its technacally illigal to recieve Private information. its perfectly legal to obtain Public information. Anything said allowed in a baitshop or "dock talk" is legal. Calling your amigo isnt legal. Remember if your a guide somewhere and your phone rings and you pick it up and the voice says hey this is KVD i need some tips.... who isnt gonnagive it to him? Not saying he does or they will rat him out... I dont know just sayin.

me........

10-04-11, 09:49 PM	#1
kennethdaysale BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: rock hill, sc Posts: 2,315	Ok i will........... How much help do the pro's with deep pockets get from up to the minute scouting reports. Do yall think that if everyone showed up at a b.a.s.s. Or flw event with the same blank slate (legal pre-fishing being a given) that some of the perennial top 10 would somehow begin to struggle???? __________________ Sometimes you gotta risk it to get the biscuit.

10-04-11, 09:51 PM	#2
nofearengineer BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southwest IN Posts: 5,630	I know those guys have to have their scouts. Seriously, how could you ever prove anything? Not that it's a big deal, as even if I had those guys scouting for me, I'd still get skunked somehow. __________________ Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing it is not fish they are after.

10-04-11, 09:58 PM	#3
kennethdaysale BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: rock hill, sc Posts: 2,315	Well It's not a big deal to me, actually less than a small deal, but to those guys living from tourney to tourney that have the same skills as the household names but not the "edge" it's probably a little discouraging. I'm no particular fan of KVD or Gerald Swindle for that matter but I know this is a matter of no small contention between them. Just wondering what some of you guys might think? __________________ Sometimes you gotta risk it to get the biscuit.

10-04-11, 10:00 PM	#4
Tavery5 BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Wichita, KS Posts: 2,427	I don't think that it would make much difference , the creme will always rise to the top. With the equipment these guys have, and their ability to use it, they will generally have a good pattern figured out by the time they are done pre fishing. Think about it , when was the last time you seen a guy win a tournament wire to wire, don't happen very often. I agree that scouting exists, but don't think it is a major part of who is in the lead for AOY or makes the classic at the end of the year. __________________ They call me Ishmael

10-04-11, 10:08 PM	#5
kennethdaysale BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: rock hill, sc Posts: 2,315	Well T5 you may be right, I will concede that the AOY is probably not that consistant because of scouting. But fishing isn't a sport like golf...I'm not a big Tiger fan but I'd be the first to admit that for a long time his talent just dwarfed the field...think Michael Jordan etc etc. And I'd further concede that there are plenty of pro fisherman that thought just because they dominated at a regional level that they could do the same in the majors but............?????? __________________ Sometimes you gotta risk it to get the biscuit.

10-04-11, 10:22 PM	#6
Tavery5 BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Wichita, KS Posts: 2,427	I don't think it matters what sport you talk about, there will always be a small group that is just better than the majority, and within that group there will always be a couple that are just that much better than the rest.... and then there is KVD __________________ They call me Ishmael

10-04-11, 10:23 PM	#7
Jrob78 BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 4,671	I think what you're talking about might have an effect, occasionally, on a specific tournament here or there. I think local knowledge plays a big role in some of the open tournaments where local guys come in and do well. For the most part though, everybody has the same info available to them, it's how they use that info that makes all the difference. Some guys are better at taking bits of information and very quickly turning that into a productive pattern. Nobody has the resources or the time to get specific inside "scouting" information on every lake they fish around the country, at the specific time they are fishing said lake. Even if one guy could consistently get that kind of information, conditions change hourly sometimes. What works on day one probably won't still be working on day 4. __________________ There are 3 kinds of people in the world…those who can count and those who can’t. HRN4L Last edited by Jrob78; 10-05-11 at 12:19 AM.

10-04-11, 11:26 PM	#8
MIbasser BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Okemos, MI Posts: 1,447	I know guys that used to fish against KVD before he became a turning pro here in Michigan. He still kicked a$$ (not all the time) back in his early 20's. One guy I fish with in our club actually finished higher then him in a tournament and kept the official standings. But he and G-man are pro's for a reason. They are really that good. And I will disagree with you about fishing and golf... They are almost exactly the same. Have you ever been 200 yards away and have to hit a low hook around a tree? Or at the bow of your boat in a 10mph wind and make a pinpoint cast between a dock and a boat? A little error and you hit the tree or the boat and the chance of catching the bass or getting on the green is now gone. Do you ever just stand at the tee box and grab the old 1 wood and wack away?? Nope, not if you're good you don't. You look at the hole layout just like you would look at a lake for contours.

10-05-11, 08:51 AM	#10
Bryan BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: VA Posts: 198	I think the way they did the first Classic was neat. Throw everybody on a plane and tell them the destination mid-flight. I know they can't do the Classic that way anymore, but it would be cool to see another tournament like that some time. Certainly levels the playing field.

10-05-11, 10:07 AM	#11
Dogmatic BassFishin.Com Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 714	Is it illegal to obtain "local knowledge" of a lake prior to a tourney?

10-05-11, 10:16 AM	#12
kennethdaysale BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: rock hill, sc Posts: 2,315	sitting around the bait shop picking brains isn't.......paid scouts are. Grey at best. __________________ Sometimes you gotta risk it to get the biscuit.

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