Affirmative Action is it Neccessary?

Fishie · 02-05-06, 02:30 PM

Got this report I got to write..... What do you all think about the Affirmative Action.. what are some of your opinions on this?...
Hey Cranky... maybe you could shed some light on this from your Indian perspective...?

CarpMan · 02-05-06, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fishie

Got this report I got to write..... What do you all think about the Affirmative Action.. what are some of your opinions on this?...
Hey Cranky... maybe you could shed some light on this from your Indian perspective...?

Affirmative Action was made into political issue. Any openion will be right or wrong. The CarpMans Openion. Good luck

striker23 · 02-05-06, 02:59 PM

CarpMan for president!!!!!

K-Driz · 02-05-06, 03:17 PM

My answer is YES because everyone is stereotypical whether they want to admit to it or not. One example is how there are people who are afraid of 'all'
dogs because 'one' dog bit them. There will always be one bad apple or more in the bunch. Everyone gives off a first impression to others. Out in public you'll always see people who dress differently and without talking to them or ever meeting them we automatically associate them with their attire, whether it be good or bad. There are those who deserve a chance, no matter their appearance and what we might associate them with, and that's what applications, resumés, and interviews are for, so that you can really determine who is best qualified for a job.

Rebbasser · 02-05-06, 03:38 PM

I think there was a tme when it was a neccessary and good thing, but in today's world I think we have grown beyond the need for it-at least I hope we have.

WTL · 02-05-06, 04:44 PM

Dont' worry, my answer will be kept deliberatly short....no.

The gravest mistake as a nation that we ever made, IE slavery, came because we ignored our supposed national ideals. One of these ideals was that all Men were created equal and that they are equal under law. If we are to suspend this equality under law in exchange for racial preferences then we are doing nothing more than repeating the same mistakes made for now 200 years, this time in someone elses favor.

Sluggo Man · 02-05-06, 09:04 PM

I couldn't have put it any better than WTL did.

NCYankee · 02-05-06, 11:09 PM

At its core, affirmative action is necessary. However, the various affirmative action programs instituted over the years have been hit and miss. Some programs have benefited those in need while others have inadvertently helped those who are not in need. For example, minority owned businesses were awarded federal government contracts simply because they were minority owned. Unfortunately, the minority owners often hired non-minorities or subcontracted the work to non-minorities. And in some cases, the so-called minorities were wealthy people from other countries but were of a particular race targeted by affirmative action programs.

Ultimately, we are left with the difficult task of deciding who should benefit from the affirmative action programs. Is it one-eighth or more black? Or, is it Native American but only federal government recognized Native American?

Again, at its core the idea of affirmative action is positive. However, there are too many gray areas to make it right (or wrong.) What we must decide is do the programs do more good than harm. Granted, that is not much of an argument, but it is all we can say for the programs.

Nitro911 · 02-06-06, 12:27 AM

I have to disagree with NCYankee. Imagine that, a Texas boy disagreeing with a Yank...

I don't believe that at its core affirmative action was either neccessary OR positive.

Now, I do think that the INTENT was positive, but the execution failed because there is no way to fix discrimination by changing who is dicriminated against.

lizardsrule · 02-06-06, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nitro911

Now, I do think that the INTENT was positive, but the execution failed because there is no way to fix discrimination by changing who is dicriminated against.

Exactly

Lizards

bassintom · 02-07-06, 08:19 PM

Affirmative action my a**....
dumbest idea i ever heard..next to the helicopter lure.

WTL · 02-07-06, 08:58 PM

By God I should hope the intent was positive. If it werent, what would that mean?

Frederick Douglass said the following;

What I ask for the Negro is not benevolence, not pity, not sympathy, but simply justice. The American people have always been anxious to know what they shall do with us. Gen. Banks was distressed with solicitude as to what he should do with the Negro. Everybody has asked the question, and they learned to ask it early of the abolitionists, "What shall we do with the Negro?" I have had but one answer from the beginning. Do nothing with us! Your doing with us has already played the mischief with us. Do nothing with us! If the apples will not remain on the tree of their own strength, if they are wormeaten at the core, if they are early ripe and disposed to fall, let them fall! I am not for tying or fastening them on the tree in any way, except by nature's plan, and if they will not stay there, let them fall. And if the Negro cannot stand on his own legs, let him fall also. All I ask is, give him a chance to stand on his own legs! Let him alone! If you see him on his way to school, let him alone, don't disturb him! If you see him going to the dinner table at a hotel, let him go! If you see him going to the ballot- box, let him alone, don't disturb him! If you see him going into a work-shop, just let him alone,--your interference is doing him a positive injury. Gen. Banks' "preparation" is of a piece with this attempt to prop up the Negro. Let him fall if he cannot stand alone! If the Negro cannot live by the line of eternal justice, so beautifully pictured to you in the illustration used by Mr. Phillips, the fault will not be yours, it will be his who made the Negro, and established that line for his government. Let him live or die by that. If you will only untie his hands, and give him a chance, I think he will live.

http://www.frederickdouglass.org/speeches/

bassintom · 02-07-06, 10:03 PM

thank you WTL.........you are a wealth of information...

flfireman · 02-08-06, 12:25 AM

I dont believe in it, nor do I feel it has accomplished anything. I feel, again I FEEL, that a person applying for a position, job, contract, etc. should be the most qualified to fill that need. I dont feel that test scores or entrance exams or promotional tests should be curved or minimum requirements lowered to allow others a chance. If you can do the job it shouldn't matter if you are black, white, red, yellow, green, man, woman, alien lifeform or what have you. I feel that companies, schools, etc. that lower these requirements are doing themselves a disservice. If a person is qualified, give them the chance. If you are not qualified do something to make yourself qualified. I dont see how any one can live w/ themselves knowing the only reason they got a job, promotion etc. is because they lowered the standard to let you get it.

02-05-06, 02:30 PM	#1
Fishie BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,145	Affirmative Action is it Neccessary? Got this report I got to write..... What do you all think about the Affirmative Action.. what are some of your opinions on this?... Hey Cranky... maybe you could shed some light on this from your Indian perspective...? __________________ Kick some Bass

02-05-06, 03:38 PM	#5
Rebbasser BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 10,141	I think there was a tme when it was a neccessary and good thing, but in today's world I think we have grown beyond the need for it-at least I hope we have. __________________ It's happened to the best of them: John 21:3

02-05-06, 04:44 PM	#6
WTL BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Huntsville, Al Posts: 7,466	Dont' worry, my answer will be kept deliberatly short....no. The gravest mistake as a nation that we ever made, IE slavery, came because we ignored our supposed national ideals. One of these ideals was that all Men were created equal and that they are equal under law. If we are to suspend this equality under law in exchange for racial preferences then we are doing nothing more than repeating the same mistakes made for now 200 years, this time in someone elses favor. __________________ Selling live waterdogs for less since 2005.

02-06-06, 12:27 AM	#9
Nitro911 BassFishin.Com Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Antonio Posts: 535	I have to disagree with NCYankee. Imagine that, a Texas boy disagreeing with a Yank... I don't believe that at its core affirmative action was either neccessary OR positive. Now, I do think that the INTENT was positive, but the execution failed because there is no way to fix discrimination by changing who is dicriminated against. __________________ San Antonio, Texas STFH

02-07-06, 08:19 PM	#11
bassintom BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: washington(northwest) N.J. Posts: 3,958	Affirmative action my a**.... dumbest idea i ever heard..next to the helicopter lure. __________________ A man's gotta believe in something...I believe I'll go fishing.

02-05-06, 02:59 PM	#3
striker23 BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Ashburn, Virginia Posts: 199	CarpMan for president!!!!!

02-05-06, 03:17 PM	#4
K-Driz BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Murray or Smithfield, KY Posts: 209	My answer is YES because everyone is stereotypical whether they want to admit to it or not. One example is how there are people who are afraid of 'all' dogs because 'one' dog bit them. There will always be one bad apple or more in the bunch. Everyone gives off a first impression to others. Out in public you'll always see people who dress differently and without talking to them or ever meeting them we automatically associate them with their attire, whether it be good or bad. There are those who deserve a chance, no matter their appearance and what we might associate them with, and that's what applications, resumés, and interviews are for, so that you can really determine who is best qualified for a job.

02-05-06, 09:04 PM	#7
Sluggo Man BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Maine Posts: 241	I couldn't have put it any better than WTL did.

02-05-06, 11:09 PM	#8
NCYankee BassFishin.Com Active Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 188	At its core, affirmative action is necessary. However, the various affirmative action programs instituted over the years have been hit and miss. Some programs have benefited those in need while others have inadvertently helped those who are not in need. For example, minority owned businesses were awarded federal government contracts simply because they were minority owned. Unfortunately, the minority owners often hired non-minorities or subcontracted the work to non-minorities. And in some cases, the so-called minorities were wealthy people from other countries but were of a particular race targeted by affirmative action programs. Ultimately, we are left with the difficult task of deciding who should benefit from the affirmative action programs. Is it one-eighth or more black? Or, is it Native American but only federal government recognized Native American? Again, at its core the idea of affirmative action is positive. However, there are too many gray areas to make it right (or wrong.) What we must decide is do the programs do more good than harm. Granted, that is not much of an argument, but it is all we can say for the programs.

02-07-06, 08:58 PM	#12
WTL BassFishin.Com Premier Elite Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Huntsville, Al Posts: 7,466	By God I should hope the intent was positive. If it werent, what would that mean? Frederick Douglass said the following; What I ask for the Negro is not benevolence, not pity, not sympathy, but simply justice. The American people have always been anxious to know what they shall do with us. Gen. Banks was distressed with solicitude as to what he should do with the Negro. Everybody has asked the question, and they learned to ask it early of the abolitionists, "What shall we do with the Negro?" I have had but one answer from the beginning. Do nothing with us! Your doing with us has already played the mischief with us. Do nothing with us! If the apples will not remain on the tree of their own strength, if they are wormeaten at the core, if they are early ripe and disposed to fall, let them fall! I am not for tying or fastening them on the tree in any way, except by nature's plan, and if they will not stay there, let them fall. And if the Negro cannot stand on his own legs, let him fall also. All I ask is, give him a chance to stand on his own legs! Let him alone! If you see him on his way to school, let him alone, don't disturb him! If you see him going to the dinner table at a hotel, let him go! If you see him going to the ballot- box, let him alone, don't disturb him! If you see him going into a work-shop, just let him alone,--your interference is doing him a positive injury. Gen. Banks' "preparation" is of a piece with this attempt to prop up the Negro. Let him fall if he cannot stand alone! If the Negro cannot live by the line of eternal justice, so beautifully pictured to you in the illustration used by Mr. Phillips, the fault will not be yours, it will be his who made the Negro, and established that line for his government. Let him live or die by that. If you will only untie his hands, and give him a chance, I think he will live. http://www.frederickdouglass.org/speeches/ __________________ Selling live waterdogs for less since 2005.

02-07-06, 10:03 PM	#13
bassintom BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: washington(northwest) N.J. Posts: 3,958	thank you WTL.........you are a wealth of information... __________________ A man's gotta believe in something...I believe I'll go fishing.

02-08-06, 12:25 AM	#14
flfireman BassFishin.Com Super Veteran Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Palm Bay, Fl Posts: 2,751	I dont believe in it, nor do I feel it has accomplished anything. I feel, again I FEEL, that a person applying for a position, job, contract, etc. should be the most qualified to fill that need. I dont feel that test scores or entrance exams or promotional tests should be curved or minimum requirements lowered to allow others a chance. If you can do the job it shouldn't matter if you are black, white, red, yellow, green, man, woman, alien lifeform or what have you. I feel that companies, schools, etc. that lower these requirements are doing themselves a disservice. If a person is qualified, give them the chance. If you are not qualified do something to make yourself qualified. I dont see how any one can live w/ themselves knowing the only reason they got a job, promotion etc. is because they lowered the standard to let you get it. __________________ In the Lord all things are possible.

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