Crankin' reels

[Wishing2BFishing]

I have two reels that I use for crankin'. Both reels are Chronarchs, one is a Chronarch MG and the other is just a plain old Chronarch. Anyway, one of the guys in my bassin' club mentioned that I should get a reel with a slower retrieve. He seems to think that my Chronarchs take up the line too fast for crankin'.

So, Gentleman, any thoughts on this subject?

[fishin' fool]

I totally agree. All of my cranking reels are are slower than a 6 gear ratio. Two of them are 5:1:1, and one is 4:1:1. The slower gears help me fish cranks through thick cover with out getting hung up as much. But remember, some cranks don't swim right if they are fished to slow.

[lunker-lander]

If you're like me, you like a bit faster reel for crankin'. Anywhere from 5.3:1 to 6.2:1; any higher will overcrank, and ruin the baits action.

Now, if you're cranking slower, wider-wobbling, deeper-diving baits, you should go slower. Somewhere in the range of 5.7:1 or less.

-Lunk-

P.S. - Remember, it's easier to crank slower with a fast reel than to crank faster with a slow reel.

[Fish2win]

Everyone has a natural cadence of retrieve speed. I use a 5.1 to 1 reel for crankin. It works great for me. I bought a 3.8 to 1 crank bait reel. I have never caught a fish on a crankbait with that reel. You may do best with a 6.1 or a 3.8 to 1. I believe it is different with everyone.
If your natural cadence works best with a 5.1 to 1 then going to a faster or slower reel will make it hard for you to judge what you are actually doing. Speeding up or slowing down a set ratio that you are accustomed to will put you more in touch with the lure.

Fish2win

[zooker]

rule of thumb
slower for hard baits faster for soft baits..

i can change my retrive speed at will and have no problem doing it..if i catch a fish at a certain "cadence" i can change reels -differant gearing-and keep up the same speed..

zooker

[3dkicker]

Trick would be to remove 1/4 of the line from the spool of a higher speed reel. You pick up less line per turn and hence a slower speed.

[Rebbasser]

For smaller baits and lipless it really doesn't matter. However, with big, deep cranks like a DD-22 it makes a huge difference. If I throw a DD-22 on a 6.3:1 reel I'm good for about 5 casts. I use a BPS David Fritts reel with a 4.7:1 GR and can throw it all day.

[jooleyen]

This is what I would choose :

Lipless/Shallow runners - 6.4:1... in the summertime when an ultra fast retrieve works well for me with lipless crankbaits, a 7.1:1.

Deep - 6.4:1

Deep(dd-22 or deeper) - 5/4:1 reels will crank without wearing your wrist too much.

Medium - 6.4:1

-In conclusion, I guess I like fast reels as Lunker-Lander does.

[Cranebird]

Your friend is wrong.

A Fritts 4.7:1 gear ratio reel will pull just as much line per turn of the handle as your Shimano Chronarchs will. In fact exactly the same .

Who ever thought of this gear ratio theory is a worse liar than Elliot Spitzer ever thought of being.

To determine how fast the reel is is determined by the spool width and spool height and line diameter as well as the gear ratio all combined.You cannot determine the speed by any one single component of this list.

If you already have the chronachs you are not going to like the new cranking reel that you buy over your chronarchs.

That is about as point blank as I can get to the truth of the subject. I am just trying to save you some extra money if your strapped for cash like most of us are or if you got go spend it and let me know I am wrong if I am wrong.Ivan

[CarpMan]

C-Bird Fly Off LOL

[Rebbasser]

Dang, Ivan-who peed in your Post Tosties?

[Cranebird]

Originally Posted by Cranebird

To determine how fast the reel is is determined by the spool width and spool height and line diameter as well as the gear ratio all combined.You cannot determine the speed by any one single component of this list.

Zooker,You are fooling yourself if you do not think this is what is involved in the reels actual speed.You need to stop with the paradigm way of thinking and learn something about the new reel designs.

Rebbasser, the reel ads have been pissing in my froot loops for a while now and I am sick and tired of the misleading information provided for us customers. I love the Bass pro shop catalogs for they provide the " per turn retreive rate in their ads. People need to pay attention to that and not get caught up in the gear ratios gimmick bull.

Bob, It does make sense to think that because the spool is turning 4.7 times per 1 complete turn of the handle compared to the 5 turns or 6.2 turns per 1 complete turn of the handle as far as numbers go.

In actuality 4.7 is near 5 anyway and another 1.2 turn of spool line to get to a 6.2:1 ratio measures very little line compared to what the the numbers might suggest because the spools are relatively so small in diameter therefore you are only gaining a small amount of line . If the spool sizes were alot larger in size then the gear ratios would have a greater effect on the reels speed.

3D Kicker is dead on his posting comment about spooling 3/4 of a spool to slow the reels speed down. The spool height is part of the equation. the taller the spool the faster the line retrieve, the lower the height the slower the line retreive.

3D, you move to the front of the class.

Next time I will refuse to comment on real reel posts. I hope one person learns the truth from this post so we can break the Paradigm or old way of thinking. You younger people are being taken to the cleaners with thinking you need different gear ratios when the fact is most different gear ratios will pull the same reel speeds. Thank you all for letting my frustrations out and thank you Zooker for disagreeing with me.I feel more confident in knowing everything is still normal . C-Bird Feathers ruffled.

[BigBassin144]

For my smaller cranks like XCalibur Wakebait and no deeper than a Bandit 100 or DT4 I use a 6.0:1 Shimano Symetre. (I know, I know, spinning gear). As for deeper cranks, I'll use a slower 5.4-5.7:1. As for large really deep crank like the Bandit 700 or DD22, I Use no faster than a 5.2:1.


BB

[lunker-lander]

Summed-up well....

-Lunk-

[Cranebird]

I was thinking Zooker might be right for a change so I am deciding to open this back up for further review since no one is posting on it anyways.

Lets say the maximum spool height of line on a reel is 1 1/8 " tall when measuring it spooled up.For this particular reel the gear ratio is 6.2:1 since people like to use gear ratios in their threads.

I use pi system to know how many inches is in that 1 1/8 "diameter. 3.14x 1.25 = 3.925"

Lets say the spool width is wide enough to sustain the required amount of line to do a gear ratio test.

I know the reels gear ratio is 6.2:1 but I do not know the line diameter at this time so we will run with the pi system formula for now.

3.925 x 6.2 = 24.335" of line. The 6.2 is 6.2 revoulutions per 1 complete turn of the handle or 6.2:1 gear ratio.

Now we know this we can formulate the rest of the gear ratios to determine how much the gear ratios effect the reel speed if we were able to change out the gears in this particular reel.

7:1 gear ratio = 27.475"
6.3:1 gear ratio = 24.335"
5.8:1 gear ratio = 22.765"
5.4:1 gear ratio = 21.195"
5.3:1 gear ratio = 20.802"
5:1 gear ratio = 19.625"
4.7 gear ratio = 18.447"
4:1 gear ratio = 17.270"

As you can see the gear ratio does in fact change the line recovery rate using this pi formula. We gained 10.205" of more line at a 7:1 gear ratio from a 4.4:1 gear ratio.

So is it safe to say the higher gear ratios will always be alot faster than a slower gear ratio when chosing a new reel ?

The answer is no. as mentioned before gear ratio is part of the 4 things that regulate the line recovery speed.

1. gear ratio
2. spool height
3. spool width
4. line diameter

Not all spool designs are the same therefore you cannot judge the speed by the gear ratio alone.

1. gear ratio - determines how many revolutions per turn of the handle.
2. spool height- a part of what determines at what rate the line speed is acheived at its maximum speed.
3.spool width-helps determine the sustained speed of the line recovery, the wider the spool the more wraps of line at that rate of speed.
4. line diameter- determines what rate of retreive by changin the height as the rate of line on the spool changes.

* you need to use the line recovery provided in the bass pro catalog to choose a special purpose rate of speed lure presentation. The thing they don't tell you is the line diameter being used in the results. Line diameter has an effect on the speed recovery as well but look at the line recovery they publish in their ads to get an idea of the many different spool designs being used.It just might be of more help to you when trying to choose a special purpose reel. C-Bird.

[Wishing2BFishing]

"Remember, it's easier to crank slower with a fast reel than to crank faster with a slow reel"

Good point . . .

[Jackl]

WISHING,
Here is a couple tips that might save you money;
Install a BPS Pro Hawg Handler ($10.00) which is longer than the factory handle. This longer throw will slow down your cranking speed and may be enough. If not, you could remove 1/3 to 1/2 of your line as previously advised by 3DKICKER, which along with the longer handle may slow your reel down enough to suit you.
Another trick is to contact Joe Arnold at Armadillo Rod and Reel Repair (903-383-7891 or www.armadillorodandreelrepair.com ) and have a 3:8 to 1 or a 5 to 1 ratio main gear installed for around $30.00. Then if you did not like the lower ratio, you could change the gear ratio back, put the shorter handle back on and re-spool more line back on the reel, and have not spent a couple hundred dollars on a new reel which you do not like. (And someone with a Shimano reel may buy the lower gear set from you)
I recently had Joe convert one of my Curados to 3:8 ratio for cranking swim baits. I just got back from Lake Fork for the maiden run of the new ratio. It worked great on swimbaits, crankbaits and slow rolling large bladed spinnerbaits (#5 & #6 Colorado blades) without wearing my arm
out. I am thinking of converting another Curado to 5 to 1 ratio for smaller crankbaits and spinnerbaits.
I hope this gives you some alternatives methods to try without the price of a new reel, which you may not like.

JackL

[Wishing2BFishing]

So there is no consensus on this subject?

Some members, such as Cranebird, feel (quite strongly), that there isn't much of a difference in how much faster/slower the lure travels with a higher/lesser gear ratio. Other members, such as Lunkerlander, recommend slowing down on the retrieve if one is using a higher gear ratio reel. And others, have gone as far as to modify some of their existing reels to achieve a slow cadence retrieve.

Now I am more confused than ever. I generally do well throwin' cranks with my Chronarchs. However, there are times when I can't get bit even with my "go-to" DT-6. I wonder if that is because the fish just don't want cranks (I usually switch up to plastics at that point), or if I used a different/slower reel, I would get bit again with the cranks. Anyone try the Chronarch BPV version? I believe it has a reduced gear ratio? Would it make sense to invest in one of these reels for crankin' (I always thought the lesser gear ratio reels were for getting a good hookset in pads and other garbage)?

P.S. I didn't realize that there would be so many opinions on this subject.

[Cranebird]

You said you can catch fish with your chronarchs.I beleive that because I use a Shimano metaniumXT with the DT6 cranks and bandit 100's and caught a ton of fish .The Mentanium XT is the japanese version of the Chronarchs that you buy here in the USA.

Now on the days they don't catch fishis your problem.It is where you have to figure out is it the crankbait presentation, wrong area, wrong speed, wrong color, wasn't holding your tongue right. lmao......

By all means buy another reel if you like and better yet sell me your chronarchs. C-Bird

[zooker]

Originally Posted by Cranebird

Now on the days they don't catch fishis your problem.It is where you have to figure out is it the crankbait presentation, wrong area, wrong speed,

tht is the most honest statement you have ever said ivan..

btw just how much crankin do you do??

zooker

[zooker]

Originally Posted by Cranebird

I was thinking Zooker might be right for a change so I am deciding to open this back up for further review since no one is posting on it anyways.

Lets say the maximum spool height of line on a reel is 1 1/8 " tall when measuring it spooled up.For this particular reel the gear ratio is 6.2:1 since people like to use gear ratios in their threads.

I use pi system to know how many inches is in that 1 1/8 "diameter. 3.14x 1.25 = 3.925"

Lets say the spool width is wide enough to sustain the required amount of line to do a gear ratio test.

I know the reels gear ratio is 6.2:1 but I do not know the line diameter at this time so we will run with the pi system formula for now.

3.925 x 6.2 = 24.335" of line. The 6.2 is 6.2 revoulutions per 1 complete turn of the handle or 6.2:1 gear ratio.

Now we know this we can formulate the rest of the gear ratios to determine how much the gear ratios effect the reel speed if we were able to change out the gears in this particular reel.

7:1 gear ratio = 27.475"
6.3:1 gear ratio = 24.335"
5.8:1 gear ratio = 22.765"
5.4:1 gear ratio = 21.195"
5.3:1 gear ratio = 20.802"
5:1 gear ratio = 19.625"
4.7 gear ratio = 18.447"
4:1 gear ratio = 17.270"

As you can see the gear ratio does in fact change the line recovery rate using this pi formula. We gained 10.205" of more line at a 7:1 gear ratio from a 4.4:1 gear ratio.

So is it safe to say the higher gear ratios will always be alot faster than a slower gear ratio when chosing a new reel ?

The answer is no. as mentioned before gear ratio is part of the 4 things that regulate the line recovery speed.

1. gear ratio
2. spool height
3. spool width
4. line diameter

Not all spool designs are the same therefore you cannot judge the speed by the gear ratio alone.

1. gear ratio - determines how many revolutions per turn of the handle.
2. spool height- a part of what determines at what rate the line speed is acheived at its maximum speed.
3.spool width-helps determine the sustained speed of the line recovery, the wider the spool the more wraps of line at that rate of speed.
4. line diameter- determines what rate of retreive by changin the height as the rate of line on the spool changes.

* you need to use the line recovery provided in the bass pro catalog to choose a special purpose rate of speed lure presentation. The thing they don't tell you is the line diameter being used in the results. Line diameter has an effect on the speed recovery as well but look at the line recovery they publish in their ads to get an idea of the many different spool designs being used.It just might be of more help to you when trying to choose a special purpose reel. C-Bird.

yawn hate to p in your fruit loops c looney bird..
but i tried it today i was right..starting with a full reel with the bait 6 feet from the rod tip on a full 21" line retrived per 1 turn of the reel -a fritts 4.7:1 gearing-. yep i get 20 1/2". now on a decent 60 yard cast-it was a dt-10- measured across the lawn. at the rate of 1 full handle turn i got in a measured 14 7/8". rate of retrive is flexable and really means nothing.. don't belive me ? try it for your self....

zooker

[Cranebird]

Zooker, You are and you aren't right .I am with you right up util you say it means nothing.

The line recovery rate means everything. I know it varies in speed with the amount of line out but if you have a tall spool like an old Abu 4600 C-4 that will pull a 31" line retreive at its fullest spool point might not be the ideal cranking reel when you can buy your Fritts reel that will be a bit slower and more comfortable to use with crankbaits.You want it slower yet put a shorter handle on the reel, but they are very uncomfortable to use.I have an old lews handle that is about an inch shorter than the standard length and then I have an old Abu sprint reel handle that is about 3/4" of an inch longer than your standard handle.Both are very awkward to use but they will change your speed as well. A reel that you can cast better than another brand will change your line speed rate as you mentioned the more line you have out the slower the line speed recovery rate. All I am saying is do not strictly go by the gear ratio alone. C- Bird still kicking dead horse..........Dead horse still dead.

[Cranebird]

Originally Posted by Cranebird

C- Bird still kicking dead horse..........Dead horse still dead.

Bob, I hear you.It the Phoenix bird thread,Zooker keeps rising it from its ashes and of course I don't mind.

Big bassin It is a formula I use in sheetmetal fabrication to know how much material I need to make a round diameter radius object. Like a can, pipe anything round as long as you know the outside diameter.

Say you want to dupicate a round cylinder type such as a pipe or a can. In order to do this you have to know its outside diameter or you can measure its distance across from the two farthest distances to get the outside diameter. Then you multiply that distance by 3.14 (pi formula) to know how much material you need in the flat to roll it to make your round cylinder and it will come out to that desired outside diameter.

Lets say you wanted to make a 6 " diameter round tube. You multiply 6 x 3.14 = 18.840. You need 18.840 " of material in the flat to roll up a 6" circle tube.

Let me know If I lost you ?

You can use that to determine how much the line measures lying flat from being rolled off your spool by knowing the diameter of your spool of line and multiplying it by 3.14.

Say you measured the distance of your spool of line from side to side and it measured 1 1/2" wide.

You convert it as 1.500 x 3.14 = 4.710 The 4.710 is the exact number of inches of line it took to make one round turn on your spool at that height.

Now lets say your gear ratio is 5:1. It means your spool makes 5 revolutions for every complete turn of the handle and you figured out your spool diameter so you can tell how much line you pull in one turn of the handle by multiplying 4.710 x 5 = 23.550. So now you know one complete turn of your handle retreives basically 23 1/2 " of line.

The moreline you cast out the smaller the spool diameter and therefore the slower the retreive rate.

I hope you understand it because I am going to stop kicking this dead horse.Let Zooker explain it to you.He is right on that part of it.

You can determine the diameter by back figuring the same formula. Zooker said his 4.7:1 ratio pulled 21 " so 21 divided by 4.7 = 4.516. 4.156 divided by 3.14 = 1.438" That tells me zookers spool diameter is 1 7/16" inch wide when measured.

Hey its been fun but not real fun Next time lets open a political debate so I can sit back and read for I know nothing about them. C-Birds of a feather flock together.

[bothomas]

just found this post...... I was thinking about buying a new reel..... can any of you guys give me any advice on which gear ratio to buy???

[Cranebird]

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaa. BoThomas you definately fit right in with the usual crowd we have here. Yes let me type a 6,000 word post and I promise I will try not to use the profanity I have been lately.Sorry for if I infact did offend someone .Instant message me and I will apologize personally if you would like. C-Bird