Line Visibilty. Is it Really an Issue?

[bassfisher02]

Before I begin on this ever-so-contraversial subject, I'd like to state that this is all stated with the EXCEPTION of extrememly clear and heavily fished waters. [Note: both clear and heavily fished waters, not one or the other].

Now, as most of the regulars may know, I very much do not believe that line visibility has any negative or positive effect on fish at all. Now, as there is no proof that line actually does scare fish away, make them more weary, or any of the such, this article [if you will] is solely my own opinion.

Line visibility has been discussed and argued over for as long as the idea has been around, with many believing it has everything to do with catching fish, and others believing the thought is ridiculous. In stained/muddy/murky/and even turbid/violent waters I am completely sold that a fish will pay little to no attention to what is coming from what it is they are interested in. Why would they? There are many species of shellfish that have 'antenni' that can very much resemble a fishing line coming from such lures as a jig, soft plastic, or topwater. It is not in a fishs basic instinct to carefully and descriptively analyze its pray. It may give the lure a few looks, but thats just it, the lure. Not whatever is around the lure, but infact the lure. Bass completely concentrate on their pray, in order to make quick and easy kills and meals. Not only does the line resemble 'antenni' but in such cases as braid [more specifically Powerpro or other braids that come in a moss green color] the line can easily resemble grass, sticks, and a number of other natural things floating about in the water. Furthermore, the diameter of braids are such that it is questionable whether the fish can even pick up the line. In such cases as a reaction strike, or when fishing bedded bass, the bass will not pay any attention to the lure at all, but merely pick it up to move it. So in theory throwing a rope tied to a soft plastic at a bedding bass can and will work. [Please not the exxageration].

I believe that taking the time to rig flouro/mono leaders to braid [even though saves some braid] is unnessacery, and can potentially cause the loss of a monster bass. Since rigging braid to other lines usually requires complicated and pain in the arse knots [such as, in the words of Flyrod, the !@#$% J-Knot] These knots can easily slip/break if the individual who ties the not makes a mistake or skips a step in the tying proccess. This will not only cause you to lose a fish, but also a few feet of line will be hanging from the lost fishs mouth giving the potential to get tangled up in structure and unfortunatly die a slow and cruel death.

Line visibility is such a hard thing for me to grasp, because there is just too many other things going on under water, and as long as you are doing a good job at presenting a lure, there is no need to worry about a fish seeing the line. If you immatate something it eats, it will eat it. Its just how it is. Many argue that after switching to braid they dont catch as many fish... well honestly it very well may have nothing at all to do with line, and more the angler/presentation. Or even the fish. Just because fish have been on for a good while, doesnt mean they will stay on, or in the same areas. There are too many variables to determine whether or not line visibility is a factor, but when I have had equal to better success using braid, you better believe I'm not gunna use mono just because some say Mr. Fishy down there is a picky wicky and has his spectacles on closely examining the braided line I have tied on.

Its simple, I want to have a line thats versitile and that I can fish in open water, or in the nastiest of cover. Braid allows me to do just that, without having to worry about whether the fish will cut me off. And with crankbaits and what not, well if you want 'give' loosen your drag, let the fish run with the lure. It will set the hook itself on the hit, so just lossening the drag is enough to insure that the hook will not be ripped out of a fishs mouth.

Again, this is all my opinion after much experience and experimentation. If you choose to use leaders, or solely flouro/mono in general, than be my guest. Its a free country, I'm just laying down my ideas on why it really doesnt make much sense.

[zooker]

i have seen fish in ultra clear water shy away from heavy mono and floro..

zooker

[bassfisher02]

T'is why the very first paragraph is up there. Shouldnt have said HEAVILY fished waters, but waters that do see a good amount of fishing. Oh well.

[FlyRod]

I cannot be convinced that line visibility is NOT an issue, at least part of the time. I will concede, in fact, avow, that a moving presentation makes it less so, but when one is slowpoking, as in most worming and jigging presentations, line visibility IS an issue.
The use of a fluoro leader, to me, is a confidence builder. It means that I can use lines of higher test (= fewer lost fish and lures,) because, test-for-test, I'm using less visible materials, given that a fish would be more likely to detect a #10 test mono than a #20 flouro leader.
Actually, the Achilles Heel that my worthy colleague mentions...knot failure...can, but NEED NOT BE...an issue. Attention to detail, correct choice of components, etc, will relieve all but the tiniest portion of risk.
I have suffered knot failure, but nevAr during combat v. fish. Only when I've darned near capsized the boat trying to free a snag has the knot broken...as it was INTENDED to do. That's why I use a leader of lower test than the braid...I lose leader, but no braid. If, on the other hand, I was using straight mono, fluoro, or even braid, any break other than at the hook or lure eye brings me that much closer to a complete re-spool. (=inconvenience AND $$$.)
There's another consideration; The breakage rate of braid with leader v. straight mono or, especially, fluoro line. Read on...
One of my esteemed partners recently emerged from a bad patch of breakoffs and not just on snags. He seemed to have a little kinking problem with his monos and, moreso, his fluoros, that led to breakoffs all too often, even just on the cast! Now, though backlashes are inevitable and bad things can happen, with braid the kinking-leading-to-breaking issue is, well, a non-issue. There's a message in that, right?
Conclusion: Every type of line has it's place and application and there is much crossover among them. However (comma) braid ('nuther comma!) properly employed and maintained has the edge in durabulity, hassle factor, positive hooksets, and sensitivity. The careful addition of a purpose-made fluoro leader adds some other inducements, invisibility being one of them. The other being the slightly faster sink rate when compared to straight braid OR regular mono.

FR

[thebus71h]

Here is also one thing to consider about this subject.

Right now, all I use is the cajun red line. With this in mind, why do people swear up and down about red skirts, red paint, and red hooks to make it look like a "blood trail"

If red is the first color that is "despersed" in water to a fish, then why does it matter what color the darn hooks are.

[FlyRod]

Originally Posted by thebus71h

Here is also one thing to consider about this subject.

Right now, all I use is the cajun red line. With this in mind, why do people swear up and down about red skirts, red paint, and red hooks to make it look like a "blood trail"

If red is the first color that is "despersed" in water to a fish, then why does it matter what color the darn hooks are.

I don't know too many folks that "swear" by red, but I did convert a lot of my lures and, as well, often use a red hook when worming. Whether there is any benefit to be derived therefrom will always be subject to debate.
I will say this; If doing something a certain way, using certain tackle or a certain technique, results in success, it matters not if the choice you make is the root cause for success. What DOES matter is that, by making those choices, you fish with confidence.
In my case, I can attest that using red hooks certainly hasn't hurt. Ergo, I didn't waste my time or money in the use thereof.
Just so I don't become dependent, psychologically, on red hooks (or anything else,) I switch back and forth from red to black/blue, hooks-wise.
Mebbe it's cause I'm a devout Sooner that the "Crimson" hooks attract me.
(They aren't TRUE Crimson, but close enough!)
So, enjoy that red line and even if it doesn't make a difference, only the bass will know.

FR

[Rodman_Rob]

Originally Posted by thebus71h

Here is also one thing to consider about this subject.

Right now, all I use is the cajun red line. With this in mind, why do people swear up and down about red skirts, red paint, and red hooks to make it look like a "blood trail"

If red is the first color that is "despersed" in water to a fish, then why does it matter what color the darn hooks are.

depth my friend, its all about depth. in 0-12 feet of water, red is visible, get much deeper than that and water will filter out the red from the color spectrum.

[FlyRod]

Originally Posted by FlyRod

..
One of my esteemed partners recently emerged from a bad patch of breakoffs and not just on snags. He seemed to have a little kinking problem with his monos and, moreso, his fluoros, that led to breakoffs all too often, even just on the cast! Now, though backlashes are inevitable and bad things can happen, with braid the kinking-leading-to-breaking issue is, well, a non-issue. There's a message in that, right?
FR

Reduced to quoting myself! Oh, the humanity!

After much thought I've decided to give something a try. Actually, it's something I've suggested to my friend mentioned above but I'm willing to be the "lab rat", at MY expense, before pressing it with him.
I'm gonna spend the last of my birthday gift card credits on a spool of a lower-test braid...#12-#15 range, and throw cranks, lipless, (BUT NO TOPWATER PLUGS!) with it. If I'm satisfied that it has no downside when compared to what I normally use (P-Line FloroClear) then I'm gonna offer my good friend a "complimentary" spooling of the braid so he can give it a try. Since we like to cast to schoolies, the potential for increased range and no more spontaneous break-offs ought to be a sufficient inducement.
When (See: If!) colder weather arrives, the limpness of the braid will be an added inducement.
Now, all that being said, there are some concerns, though all are easily dealt with. First up is the potential for the braid's lack of stretch causing tear-outs when hooking fish on cranks. Well, I've never experienced that but many claim to have. I'm not too worried about it 'cause I can alter my hooksetting and fighting techniques to suit the situation. The added sensitivity I will gain when fishing a stop-and-go retrieve is more than adequate compensation for having to learn new tricks. My favorite partner uses a glass/'phite composite rod for cranks so the increased feel will benefit him and he'll run less risk of tear-outs.
Second concern is visibility. Well, I believe that a steady retrieve, especially when burning a lipless crank, makes it unlikely the bass will see the line, whether it would spook him or not. When it comes to the stop-and-go retrieve, such as with a jerk bait, one can always use a pure fluoro leader. Besides, the sinking quality of fluoro will be a benefit in these cases.
And research continues!
I do loves me some R&D!

FR

[bassfisher02]

Well just make sure to loosen that drag a TAD bit, it can never hurt.

Keep us posted.

[bigbasser]

Billy Westmoreland used "GOLDEN STREN" for his fishing in the clear lakes for smallmouth. To quote him; fish school usually by size, they don't go to school. Did you ever see one in the hall at school? I thought I would pass his thoughts along. I asked him about the golden stren at a bass show years ago, abd that was his responce. He used the golden stren so he could see the bite. bigbasser

[bassfisher02]

That doesnt exactly seem like the kinda answer I would have wanted when asking about his choice of line... Maybe something a long the liens of why he uses the line, not something about how bass school by size? Haha weird.

[dodgeguy]

i never used to think it mattered until my buddy convinced me to switch to seguar invizx flouro this year and i know i have caught more fish,i think it matters when the bite is tough.my lakes are not real clear either.over the couse of a season it might mean 10% more fish and you never know if one of them is going to be a personal best or tournament winner.`

[islandbass]

Here's my take. Sometimes it might matter, sometimes it won't regarding the visibility of line to the fish. This subject is not black and white nor an absolute.

As previously mentioned there are other factors to consider.

If line visibility worries you, then by all means use a fluorocarbon line of your choice and if it doesn't a braid line.

If you want the best of both worlds use braid as a main line and use a fluoro or even mono leader.

It's that simple!

[bassthumb32]

"youve got to get them to bite before you worry about anything else." Guido Hibdon. i try to use as light as line as i cant manage. finesse applications i use 6-8 lb fluro. cranking 8-10 lb fluro. and spinnerbait 12-14 lb fluro. top waters and pitching and flipping braid or 20 lb. mono

[CarpMan]

All have good points as far as line visibility. I’ve experimented with all types and colors and have concluded that olive green is the least visible to the fish’s eye... Polly is a beautiful little woman and she always attracts attention when we are at the beach, so I thought about this “olive green thing” and said “ why not”, so I wanted something to keep the horny beach combers away, so I went to a near by wall-mart and got her a “pale green two piece beach out fit", and let me tell you, the fish may not see the pale green under water, but Polly playing in the sand with her little “ pale green bucket and shovel” sure created chaos on the beach.. .. All funning on the side…. The more I use my 20# PP the better the fish like. The Carp Man from Snow hollow

[FlyRod]

Originally Posted by CarpMan

Polly is a beautiful little woman and she always attracts attention when we are at the beach,

#1 This thread is worthless without pics.

#2 Please assure us that her middle name isn't Esther...please.

FR

[ESipes_89]

I've never seen line visibility as a problem until the other day. I had went down to the city lake and was trying all my little tricks without a single fish touching the lure. I finally decided to put an 18", 12lb. mono Spiderwire leader on my 30lb. Power Pro braided line and lord and behold, FISH ON!!! I was using the same thing, a 7 1/2in. plastic worm. Plus, I was fishing the same spot. I'm not sure if this was a fluke or what, but it changed my mind.

-Eric

[BassAddict]

I think Braid has it's places but I get more bites on Fluoro. I've tried the Braid in tournaments this year and haven't had a bite yet. All my fish have come on Fluoro or Mono. My brother has caught some fish on the new Fireline Crystal. I'm going to try the Braid w/ mono leader deal (after conversing with FlyRod) and see how it works. The rivers I'm fishing are stained and I'm still not getting bit on straight braid. I do use braid for my Spro Bronze Eye frog and have had great success with that (in a pond) but not with jigs and worms so far.

Eric

[bassfisher02]

But can you honestly say its the braid keeping you from getting a fish? The answer is no. Many other variables affect when a fish will hit and will it will not. Just because you havent got a hit on braid, doesnt mean that if you were to throw mono at that very same spot at the VERY SAME TIME you would ahve gotten a fish... Its just impossible say. As well, a lot of people seem to be catching a lot of fish on straight braid in stained/murky waters, if not it would, quite frankly, not sell.

Another point came to mind the past few days. I dont know how many here saltwater fish, but a steel leader is commonly used. The waters we fish have atleast 10' of visibility. So the question arises, whats the difference? If fish are fish, which they are, any species that uses their eyes along with other senses will still be subject to the line visibility issue. I dont use a steel leader, just 40lb braid. But my stepdad uses a leader on all applications. And you woudl think that if line visibility was such a factor, a fish suspended under a bobber connected to a hook through its back and a steel leader coming from it would turn every fish away, but it doesnt. So whats the deal??

Again the point of this thread is simply to discuss, I'm not trying to make any believe something they dont want to, just throwing out facts and ideas, for everyone to take in and determine individually.

[skeeter944]

Well, line visibility isnt reall an issue, but I really like using Fluorocarbon becasue I get better sensitivity with it than if I was fishing with mono. I like the sinking of Fluoro also. I use Fluoro for all my Wormin' and Jiggin', I use mono for reaction baits and Flipping. Just my $.02

[BassAddict]

But can you honestly say its the braid keeping you from getting a fish? The answer is no. Many other variables affect when a fish will hit and will it will not. Just because you havent got a hit on braid, doesnt mean that if you were to throw mono at that very same spot at the VERY SAME TIME you would ahve gotten a fish... Its just impossible say. As well, a lot of people seem to be catching a lot of fish on straight braid in stained/murky waters, if not it would, quite frankly, not sell.

I can honestly say that if I'm not getting bites on Braid but am with Fluoro that I'm going to keep fishing the Fluoro and not the Braid. I understand your point but can YOU honestly say Braid is NOT keeping me from getting bites? As far as I'm concerned... if your flipping to mats of grass your getting a reaction bite from the bass. They're not just staring at the lure trying to make a decision on whether to eat it or not. This application if perfect for Braid. In more open water situations where the fish sees the bait and is not just quickly reacting to it I think they may shy away from the Braid. This is my opinion.

I have more confidence fishing Fluoro in tournaments than I do Braid and since there's money on the line I'm going with what I know works. I like Braids and the qualities they have but until I notice I'm getting the same amount of bites as the Fluoro it stays in the box.

Eric

[senkosam]

Line is a tool that links angler to lure and controls aspects of the lure, namely:

lure action - too large a diameter muffles action and lure action is most important factor fish strike artificials

lure depth - too large a diameter prevents the lure getting to the proper depth

sensitivity - the more elastic the line, the more muffled the sensitivity to feel subtle bites

hooksets - too large a diameter results in a large line bow the deeper you go causing loss of hookset force

long hooksets - the more stretch, the less force of the hookset and the less control of a jumping fish at a distance

horsing fish out of cover - the lighter the line, the less ability to haul a fish out of pads and heavy cover and keeping it's head up

working certain topwaters - too much diameter and the action imparted by the rod tip is muffled because of drag or line weight

line watching - the more camoflaged or darker the line, the less I can watch it for subtle strikes

line shy fish - without scuba gear and being able to see the affects of highly visible line in stained water, I can never be sure it was a factor of less strikes.

Note: I decided to use high vis. flor. chartreuse Fireline for light spinning and heavy baitcasting and haven't noticed the bite to be much different as compared to other rods that were rigged with flouro. (3 rods with/ 3 without) -

Note: I've attached a wire connector to small jigs/grubs to prevent pick snap offs and panfish by the dozens and a few bass hit the lures in semiclear water.

Note: I've used 50lb test Power Pro for the same reason and still caught bass and pike in the same water.

IMO, other important considerations outweigh line visibility for warm, stained water.

Food for thought

[lizardsrule]

Originally Posted by senkosam

Line is a tool that links angler to lure and controls aspects of the lure, namely:

lure action - too large a diameter muffles action and lure action is most important factor fish strike artificials

lure depth - too large a diameter prevents the lure getting to the proper depth

sensitivity - the more elastic the line, the more muffled the sensitivity to feel subtle bites

hooksets - too large a diameter results in a large line bow the deeper you go causing loss of hookset force

long hooksets - the more stretch, the less force of the hookset and the less control of a jumping fish at a distance

horsing fish out of cover - the lighter the line, the less ability to haul a fish out of pads and heavy cover and keeping it's head up

working certain topwaters - too much diameter and the action imparted by the rod tip is muffled because of drag or line weight

line watching - the more camoflaged or darker the line, the less I can watch it for subtle strikes

line shy fish - without scuba gear and being able to see the affects of highly visible line in stained water, I can never be sure it was a factor of less strikes.

Note: I decided to use high vis. flor. chartreuse Fireline for light spinning and heavy baitcasting and haven't noticed the bite to be much different as compared to other rods that were rigged with flouro. (3 rods with/ 3 without) -

Note: I've attached a wire connector to small jigs/grubs to prevent pick snap offs and panfish by the dozens and a few bass hit the lures in semiclear water.

Note: I've used 50lb test Power Pro for the same reason and still caught bass and pike in the same water.

IMO, other important considerations outweigh line visibility for warm, stained water.

Food for thought

Excellent post, and nice to see ya around Sam

Lizards

[CarpMan]

Originally Posted by FlyRod

#1 This thread is worthless without pics.

#2 Please assure us that her middle name isn't Esther...please.

FR

Fr! I assure you that her middle name isn’t Esther. And as for pics, she has never had a photo taken with clothes on her body. Just visualize in your mind the cutest little 5ft red head operating a D-8 cat tractor with no one around but yours truly. If you remember in one of my past post when she made a eunch out of one of our friends when he tried to sneak a peak at her. Sorry but no pics. The CarpMan

[JB]

carpie,
I did manage to find a pic of "lil carpkid" in my archieves, musta been taken a while back huh