Shore-bassin' Question 1 - Reverse fishing the drop off and grass line

[Ground Pounder]

Date: Sunday, July 11, 2010 - 6:08 PM
Location: Newburgh Lake, Livonia MI
Conditions: 84 deg. F, mostly cloudy skies with an occasional light sprinkle

The day is hot, and the fishing is... lacking. In my second hour of flipping senkos, lizards, superflukes, a scum frog, and even a few pieces of teriyaki beef jerky down a long stetch of grassy, lilly-pad filled shoreline, I'm getting nothing but weeds.

Needless to say, my 6th grade Sadie Hawkins date gave more action than this lake.

As I'm chugging down another bottle of Perrier (okay, it was the cheap Kroger stuff... jeez), a fella' in a beat up old Jon boat paddles over and starts working the outside of the grass line with what looks to be a rusty hot-wheels car tied to the end of a salmon pole. I sit by, half scoffing and half snickering as he casts out about 200 yards, and begins cranking this monstrosity over and over again.

Suddenly, the tip of his mammoth pole dips, and he jumps from his seat and jerks hard enough to cause a wind-sheer ripple in the water 400 feat away. As his cigar goes flying from his now-frothing mouth, he jerks and yanks on the pole as his hands turn the reel at the speed of light, in only what I can guess is an effort to beat this poor creature on the other end of his line senseless before it reaches the front of his rust-trap of a boat.

(Don't worry, there is a reason for all this nonsense below)

As the gnarled old geezer, now sweating like a ox, reaches down to pull a nice 16-18" bass from the water, I'm stunned, and disgusted at the same time.

"Nice catch - get many today?", I yell in a choked voice that resembles that Flick kid from A Christmas Story, when he got his tongue stuck to the lightpost.

"This's num'er 7, and we got 9 yesterday. Don't keep 'em, though, gotta' let 'em grow up. You?", the beaming old codger wheezes and rasps back.

"Very nice. I'm skunked so far. Hope it picks up when the sun sets," I bellow back.

"Gotta' get out to the deeper water if you wanna' get 'em. It's too warm up by the shore", he states matter-of-factly back to me.

After a quick thanks, I turn away and head straight to my backpack. I know the fish are in deeper water... hell, if for no other reason, because I just worked every square inch of shallow water in this pond!

As I start sifting through my lures, I'm suddenly blank. What can I throw out there that's gonna' be able to get down in 7-8 feet of water, and still have a chance of making it back to me in all this grass?

In a panic, I start tying on anything I can find. Cranks and spinners all nearly get lost in the weeds. T-rigged a couple sinkos, but couldn't get them out far enough beyond the grass line. Tried a heavy-weight drop shot rig, and nearly put my eye out yanking it back out after I snagged the outer edge of the grass.

I was befuddled - and still am.

What in the world are my options in this situation?

- Bass are in deeper water
- I am on shore
- Between me and the bass is 20-30 yards of jungle-thick shallows
- No way to get into the water (no wading allowed).

SO NOW TO THE QUESTION:

I remember seeing a technique once (I think it was KVD) where he was taking a crankbait, digging it into the shallows just inside the grass line, and pulling it off of the drop-off and letting it sink into the bass below.

Is there a technique or a presentation I can use to do the opposite? To cast out either on or past the fish, get the lure down to the right depth, keep a good presentation to the fish, but stay weedless enough not to nearly kill myself trying to drag it back through the grass?

Any help is appreciated - thanks!

GP

Note: There was an arial photo shot at the scene for reference, but could not be used (as I was flipping the bird to the camera.) Below is an unnamed artist's representation.

[walkeraviator]

1st... are you a paid author because that is some awesome writing. 2nd... my advise is to find another body of water to fish or rent a boat. The lake by my house gets like this during the spring and basically fishing from the bank is futile. later when the grass dies down it becomes much easier to fish from the bank. The only sugestion i would make is maybe try a Yum Money Hound really early and maybe you will get some morning topwater action... but after the sun comes out that should all end...

[BigBassin144]

First off, great story! (and even better illustrations! )

Remember, while a lot of fish go deeper in this hot weather, there are always still fish in the shallows.

Personally, I would get there as early as I could in the morning and fish the frog until (and possibly after) sunrise.

From there, I'd use a t-rigged (weighted) senko or 7" Powerworm. This rig is fairly weedless, so don't be afraid to use a heavier weight like 1/2oz with the worms, and 1/4-3/8 with the senko (remember, a 5" senko weighs nearly half an ounce by itself).

If that didn't work, I'd throw a swimjig. I haven't used them much, and plan on using them more. But so far, I like Booyah's swimjig. For a trailer, a 4-6" single or double tail grub works great.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

BB

[rodnreel]

You could try using a Scrounger jig. I use them regularly on my lake and have caught a few bass on it. The best aspect about it is you can rig just about any soft plastic you want and get a "crankbait" type wobble out of it. You can fish it at any depth you want and it is fairly weedless as long as the weeds aren't very thick. Otherwise, your best bet would be a texas rigged worm as BB144 mentioned.

http://www.tacklewarehouse.com/Luck_...e-LKESTSC.html

[Bassboss]

Ugg... I know what you mean last year I got pretty much skunked because of this all summer. However, I have found away that I can get the grass edge. only it one spot though.

OK, so there's a creek at my lake, that is around, 5-3' at the back, than goes to probably 6-8'. Than it gets deeper, 10' plus!

I've found, after fishing this lake for well ever a year, that, the grass is pretty thick, around 5-3' feet, than it starts thinning more at 6'-8'. Than it gets deep, around 10 feet, and the grass almost becomes non nonexistent. The creek is about 50 feet wide at the furthest part, from shore to shore. So they why I've found I can catch them, is by getting a heavier jig, around 1/2-1oz, chucking it as far as you can along the transition (the places the fish are gonna be). Letting it settle to the bottom, and jerking it up wards. Ike calls it "stoking a jig."

They why I found these places, is by using a tungsten weight, and a non-tex-posed worm. It'll take some time to find the transitions, but it can be done, you also may catch a few fish on the way. And the reason for the hook rigged the way it is, is so you snag the grass.

You've gotta get to it from the side, too.

Hopefully your lake will have some kind of structure like this.

Also, get there early, as you can and fish top water plugs over top the grass, or hollow frog it it's matted. I've caught some good fish like that.

[cassidyta]

Based off of your picture, I would say that you are standing too far from the waters edge!
A couple of things I would suggest. If a boat is not an option, then how a float tube? I know you said no wading allowed so it might not be allowed either.

The other option is stop cranking your crank bait when it reaches the weeds. If it is a non suspending crank, it will float back up to the top. Then you have to slowly bring it in over the grass. I have a pond where I have to do this. Another option that has worked for me is a fluke type bait on a weighted hook. I find that I can swim them through the weeds easier than most baits.

[Vegasspider]

This might help and I recommend getting your hands on the July August issue of Bass Master. More articles might help you. I am betting the “rusty hot wheels” was a red lipless crank bait with the grass and all. Just my guess.

[WTL]

Ive racked my brain - My idea: Johnson spoons. They will cast far enough, sink deeper, then are weedless when you bring it up through the weeds. The only question is will the fish out there in the middle want one, so try it. My forefathers used to tip the hook with pork rind strips. Make sure you sharpen the hook cause sometimes out of the package they are a little less sharp than youd like. While they arent fished as much these days, I have heard reports that they are still effective.

[Jim80]

I would ask how large is the body of water you are fishing ? I would look for spots that might get passed over by other shore bound anglers and try starting there . We are bound to the bank quite a bit ourselves and most the places we fish are incredibly weedy . We fish just above the surface of the weeds most of the time with swimbaits spinners and the likes . Lipless cranks will work in these areas as well . Or if you are throwing top water just remember to slow down your retrieve so the fish can better home in on your bait , if they are hanging out in the weeds a slower moving bait in my opinion has a better chance of getting hit.



Jim

[Jim80]

Originally Posted by WTL

Ive racked my brain - My idea: Johnson spoons. They will cast far enough, sink deeper, then are weedless when you bring it up through the weeds. The only question is will the fish out there in the middle want one, so try it. My forefathers used to tip the hook with pork rind strips. Make sure you sharpen the hook cause sometimes out of the package they are a little less sharp than youd like. While they arent fished as much these days, I have heard reports that they are still effective.

my dad still chucks them . He uses big ones I think they weigh almost an ounce or more and cast them a fricking mile but they catch fish .


Jim

[walkeraviator]

I have had issues with the weedless spoons not swimming or falling right... i prefer the treble hook spoons... but they are definitely not weedless...

[bassinbob]

I reread your post. You said you can barely cast past the weed edge. What type of gear are you using? If casting use braid with a fluoro leader. You should be able to clear the weeds with a jig and trailer. If you can cast it slightly beyond the weeds let it fall by playing out more line. This will enable the jig to fall straight down past the weeds. With braid you will be able to pull the jig fairly easy through the weeds. The only drawback is it might be hard to feel a bite with the line over all the weeds.

[Bob Smith]

About two pounds of chelated copper broadcast liberally in the area you intend to fish. Then come back in about two weeks and cast anything you want through there! Works great and stays where you throw it! Just think you can create your own edges if you can throw it carefully!
Other than that weightless Senko type baits or heavy grass jigs with crawworm trailers. I wouldn't give up on the toad baits or grass frogs.

[Cavs1123]

What do you mean "chelated chopper"?

[Jrob78]

Something else to consider, if you are able to connect with some of these fish outside the weed line, do you have the equipment to get the fish back through the weeds? Those fish will immediately try to bury themselves in the thickest stuff they can find. Heavy rods and braid are mandatory if it is very thick.

[Ground Pounder]

Thanks for all the tips folks, it looks like it comes down to 2 key things: 1) Get out early (or late) and fish the top, or 2) get some heavy gear and fish' the slop.

I'll still try the other ideas, as well. I thought about heavier weights for a t-rig, or trying a heavy jig, but didn't have any with me in my stripped-down walkin' bag on Sunday.

Seems like the simplest and most economic approach until next year when I can get on the water.

Tomorrow night's free, so I'm headed back to the bass!

Thanks again folks!

[islandbass]

Good advice so far for sure. If you have a topo of the area, try to find (although there might not be) areas close to shore that get deep quickly. It would be tossing over that barrier, which I too know all too well.

BB144 is right that there should be some bass up shallow some of the time. The puzzle to crack is to know when they are. The early morning and late evening are to sound times to try first.

[Ground Pounder]

Thanks IB - I'm actually putting together some information on my local lake for another post (and more questions), which I'll post either today or tomorrow. It should be a fun thread, lots of good info on a rescued lake with lots of topics to discuss - species, landscape, cover, traffic, etc.

I also got another fun surprise today that I'll share when I find out more info on - what else - the monkey.

[CMorg]

Originally Posted by bassinbob

I reread your post. You said you can barely cast past the weed edge. What type of gear are you using? If casting use braid with a fluoro leader. You should be able to clear the weeds with a jig and trailer. If you can cast it slightly beyond the weeds let it fall by playing out more line. This will enable the jig to fall straight down past the weeds. With braid you will be able to pull the jig fairly easy through the weeds. The only drawback is it might be hard to feel a bite with the line over all the weeds.

The pic shows the weed edge is only 4' maybe 8' out. I would say its time to upgrade rod and reel...

[MississippiBoy]

Originally Posted by CMorg

The pic shows the weed edge is only 4' maybe 8' out. I would say its time to upgrade rod and reel...

Originally Posted by Ground Pounder

Between me and the bass is 20-30 yards of jungle-thick shallows

The pic (Drawing? Artist's representation?) also shows a bass as big as the boat...

WARNING: Image is not to scale...

[Ground Pounder]

Originally Posted by MississippiBoy

The pic (Drawing? Artist's representation?) also shows a bass as big as the boat...

WARNING: Image is not to scale...

Yeah, the real boat was actually pretty small...

[Ground Pounder]

Originally Posted by CMorg

The pic shows the weed edge is only 4' maybe 8' out. I would say its time to upgrade rod and reel...

Nah, that's the water depth marked on the pic. The space between me and the weed edge was closer to 60-80 feet in most spots.

[DaveW731]

IMO, even if you have heavy enough gear to chuck a bait or lure past the weed edge, you would need a winch to pull any decent sized bass through that much weeds, ESPECIALLY if you are using a sinking lure. I think I would stick with fishing the weeds, but focus on topwaters, the noisier the better. With the exception of the scum frog, the baits you described may not be very noticable for a fish more than 3-4 ft away, so you may have passed over a number of fish. I happen to like Sizmic's floating popper-style frog for maximum water disturbance in weeds.
A variation could also to be a Johnson's Silver Minnow with a good sized pork or plastic frog trailer that will settle into open pockets and then move stuff out of the way as you pull it back over the edge of the pockets.

[bassinbob]

Yes use a pork trailer. It won't slip, shred or come off on the retrieve. It always rides the bend of the hook.