baitcast frustration. what am i doing wrong?

[di$TOrTed]

Ok. I have been practicing heavily with baitcasters in the last few weeks. Atleast 8 hours a week I have been at it. I am using a BPS Extreme baitcaster with a Berkley Lightning Rod Shock MH rod. I have the brakes set at 3 unless the wind picks up then I turn them up to 6 or 7.

I can throw a 3/8oz bass jig half a mile. I love it. Farther than I can go with a spinning reel by far.

My problem is the lighter weight stuff. I can get a weightless Zoom trick worm out about the same distance as I can a spinning reel, with little to no backlashes. So then I threw on a jighead with a white grub on it. Not sure the exact weight but its heavier than the weightless worm. I try to cast... backlash. Try again..... backlash. I double check that I set the spool tension knob correctly and try again. After some practice, no backlashing. Just for comparison I put it on my spinning setup, a Berkley Lighting Rod M and an Okuma Trio reel. I cast and the jighead goes twice as far.

How is it that I can cast some things just as well or even farther than a spinning setup, but other things I can't?

I'm trying to just use baitcasters 99% of the time so I can just bring one rod with me when I'm just driving down the road to fish for an hour or so. I like things simple.

One more question, I can cast crankbaits well with the caster until I tie on one of these: http://www.basspro.com/Bass-Pro-Shop...225050/-632875

For some reason it won't cast like any of the others. I just get a lot of backlashing unless I turn the brakes up. Any ideas on why that particular lure doesn't seem to work? Is it just because its cheap or is it something else?

Thanks for the help everybody!

[cassidyta]

Don't stress that the lighter stuff is more difficult to cast. It is that way with all of us and baitcasters.

When are you backlashing? If it is at the start of your cast, then I will say it is tension adjustments. If it is at the end of your cast then it is breaks.
The fact that you can cast a weightless trick worm tells me that you have grasped the baitcasting concept farily well.

The only reason that I have seen one crank not cast as well is usually the profile. I have found that on light, bulky weights will resist wind more than smaller ones. This will cause your bait to slow faster than your line is going out.

[walkeraviator]

what cassidy said

[pro reel]

weigh the things you are using on a good digital scale and I bet you will find that the trick work weighs more than the jig and grub. The reel you have is not meant to cast anything lighter than 1/4 oz and even that is light and will be tricky.

[BigBassin144]

Glad to hear things are going well for the most part.

As for the grub, if it is fairly similar in weight to a weightless trick worm, you gotta remember that the grub is going to have a lot more air resistance. It's why baits like crankbait cast great while spinnerbaits and be a pain, especially in the wind.

But overall, like the others have said, don't worry too much about the light stuff. You can invest in a higher end baitcaster designed for finesse lures, but at this point, you'd probably be better off just fishing them on a spinning rod as specialized finesse baitcasters can empty your wallet out fast!

BB

[islandbass]

You have learned the lower weight limitation of your particular reel. It probably has nothing to do with your present skill.

The difficulty bc reels have for tossing lighter lighter (generally speaking, folks, I ain't talking about Pixies and Pressos) is perhaps a bc reel's tradeoff.

With regard to your other question, a lure's aerodynamics can come into play. Less aerodynamic lures although they might weigh the same as one that is more aerodynamic will usually be casted a shorter distance. For example, you should be able to yield a farther cast with the same amount of effort throwing a 1/4 oz casting spoon than say a 1/4 oz floating rapala minnow.

[AzodinKaos15]

Originally Posted by islandbass

You have learned the lower weight limitation of your particular reel. It probably has nothing to do with your present skill.

The difficulty bc reels have for tossing lighter lighter (generally speaking, folks, I ain't talking about Pixies and Pressos) is perhaps a bc reel's tradeoff.

With regard to your other question, a lure's aerodynamics can come into play. Less aerodynamic lures although they might weigh the same as one that is more aerodynamic will usually be casted a shorter distance. For example, you should be able to yield a farther cast with the same amount of effort throwing a 1/4 oz casting spoon than say a 1/4 oz floating rapala minnow.

Yuppers...

[Garry2rs]

You might be passed this, but here's Bait Casting 101 as I see it.

There are only two things that cause a backlash.
Number one is the spool turns faster than the bait is taking the line out.
Number two is the spool keeps turning after the bait has stopped IE, hit the water.

On the side of your reel opposite the crank is a magnetic or centrifugal brake. This brake moderates the speed of the spool especially at the start of the cast so that it doesn't out accelerate the bait and the line going out...To get started if it's a knob turn this on all the way. If your reel has brake shoes, turn them all on..

Under the crank handle there will be a knurled knob. When this is tightened it applies pressure to the end of the spool shaft. This pressure will slow the spool at the end of the cast so that it stops when the bait stops.

To get started, tighten this so that when you release the spool the bait settles gently to the ground/water and the spool stops.

You are now ready for your first cast. Turn your wrist slightly so that the reel handle faces up at a 45 degree angle.

Press the spool release, but keep the spool from moving with your thumb.

Point the rod at the place you want the cast to go...now look up about 45 degrees and pick a spot that is above the target, something like a cloud in the sky or the top of a tree will work nicely. Make a nice easy cast toward this object. Using this secondary high target will compensate for the time-lag between when you think about releasing the spool and when your thumb actually moves.

The rod should start level at 9 o'clock, then rise to 12 o'clock. With your elbow down, when your wrist meets your shoulder, bend your wrist back to about 1 o'clock then snap your wrist and forearm forward with a hammer-like motion to drive the cast. As the your hand comes forward release the spool as you reach your high target.

Try to keep you elbows down, stretching your arms out will not add distance to your cast.

You will soon get the timing, and be able to aim at your target, but use the cloud trick to get started...

The cast should go out in an arc, then the bait will die in the air and fall to that water with no tangles in the line.

The cast dies in the air because you are using too much braking.
You can back both brakes off a little once you become comfortable with the mechanics of casting this type of reel.

If you get in the habit of stopping the spool with your thumb as the bait reaches the target, in time the friction brake might be loosened off all the way and completely replaced by your thumb.

The magnetic or centrifugal brake can be backed off until you see loose line on the spool during the cast, or hear the line flapping inside the reel during the cast. At that point turn it up a notch and you should be good to go.
Good Luck
Garry2R's
Fishing is my favourite form of loafing.

[Lvitch]

Tighten your mag brakes. I use mine on 8 and don't hardly ever change them. I can't cast that set up and not backlash with the brakes on 3. I think it works the opposite of what Gary said unless its a shimano reel (no disrespect). I have 12 bps reels, extremes included. My take is that the brakes slow the spool at the mid to end of the cast. The spool tensioner handles the start of the cast. I set my brakes on full, then adjust the spool tensioner until the bait drops slowly with the button pressed, no backlash when it hits the floor. This is the starting position. Modify it from there. Loosen the spool to get a bit not distance with less force. Then turn the brakes down slowly to get the distance you want without the backlash. You need to set the reel up again every time you change bait or weights. After a wile your thumb takes over and you'll have it down in about 3 casts. Hope that helps.

[BigBassin144]

Just to clear some things up, the spool tension is applied to the spool AT ALL TIMES; beginning of the cast, middle of it, end of it, then the spool it engaged, when you're reeling it, when the reel is sitting in the rod locker.

Centrifugal brakes work best at the beginning of the cast when the spool is getting up to speed, because the faster the spool is spinning, the more force the little tabs are exerting on the plate surrounding them.

Normal magnetic brakes work better towards the end of the cast. The magnetic brakes don't do a whole lot when the spool is rotating slowly, like at the very beginning of the cast.

Now Daiwa's Magforce brakes acts a little differently. Because the mag brake rotor has a centrifugal aspect to it, at high speeds, it will actually be forced away from the spool and into the brake housing in the side plate. This causes the magnetic force to be greater at higher speeds, making them sort of act kinda like centrifugal brakes.

Check out this video of a Daiwa spool with MagforceZ braking system and you'll see what I'm talking about.

BB

[boloson]

Originally Posted by BigBassin144

Just to clear some things up, the spool tension is applied to the spool AT ALL TIMES; beginning of the cast, middle of it, end of it, then the spool it engaged, when you're reeling it, when the reel is sitting in the rod locker.

Centrifugal brakes work best at the beginning of the cast when the spool is getting up to speed, because the faster the spool is spinning, the more force the little tabs are exerting on the plate surrounding them.

Normal magnetic brakes work better towards the end of the cast. The magnetic brakes don't do a whole lot when the spool is rotating slowly, like at the very beginning of the cast.

Now Daiwa's Magforce brakes acts a little differently. Because the mag brake rotor has a centrifugal aspect to it, at high speeds, it will actually be forced away from the spool and into the brake housing in the side plate. This causes the magnetic force to be greater at higher speeds, making them sort of act kinda like centrifugal brakes.

Check out this video of a Daiwa spool with MagforceZ braking system and you'll see what I'm talking about.

BB

sooooo what you're saying is buy daiwa?
that's an interesting braking system & seems the most sensible one. never tried daiwa's before. i've been practicing the baitcaster & now know the "feeling" of casting it but still backlash every now & then. do u think daiwas braking system are less prone to backlashes?

[Bubba_Bruiser]

Rods make a big difference between casting different weight baits too. Are you changing the rods? I can throw a 3/8 Tx rig a county mile on a MH-F rod, but a weightless worm will end up at my feet with an afro in my hand. Gimme the right rod for the weightless, and I can throw the weightless the same distance.

[boloson]

Originally Posted by Bubba_Bruiser

Rods make a big difference between casting different weight baits too. Are you changing the rods? I can throw a 3/8 Tx rig a county mile on a MH-F rod, but a weightless worm will end up at my feet with an afro in my hand. Gimme the right rod for the weightless, and I can throw the weightless the same distance.

im using a 795 dobyns w/ a curado 301 & am practicing with a money minnow on weighted gamakatsu hook (not sure what that weighs). anything lighter then that & i afro myself. i'm getting better & can feel when the spool spins faster then the line which in turn cause the birdsnest. just frustrating when it happens. curious if the daiwa braking system makes a big difference then the mags or centrifugal brakes. i know i need lots more practice but am willing to hear others comparo on the daiwa's braking system vs mags & centrifugals.

[BigBassin144]

Originally Posted by boloson

sooooo what you're saying is buy daiwa?

That's exactly what I'm saying! All kidding aside, I do prefer Daiwas to other brands, but many people don't care for them. I'm of the belief that if you don't try it, how do you know you're not missing something? That would explain why I have reels from BPS, Abu Garcia, Daiwa, Pflueger, and Shimano.

Originally Posted by boloson

that's an interesting braking system & seems the most sensible one. never tried daiwa's before. i've been practicing the baitcaster & now know the "feeling" of casting it but still backlash every now & then. do u think daiwas braking system are less prone to backlashes?

Here's what I've noticed from MY personal experience. I would say, overall, I get less big backlashed than with my other reels. However, I find I get a little more overrun; you know those few loose loops of line around the spool at the end of a cast. The best way to prevent that on any baitcaster though, is to stop spool with your thumb right before the lures hits the water.

I just find, that overall I like Daiwa's Magforce-V and Magforce-Z brakes the best.

And just a word on Daiwa's before you run out and buy one. As I mentioned before, many people don't like them. They aren't going to be buttery smooth like the comparable Abu or Pflueger reel. The best way I can describe it is that you feed connected to the reel. They're not rough, they don't grind, but you can sort of feel what's going on inside them; you feel connected. I'd read some reviews on www.TackleTour.com of Daiwa reels before you buy one. (click on review archive at the top of the page for a full list of reviews).

Hope this helps and doesn't cost you a whole lot of money!

BB

[boloson]

Originally Posted by BigBassin144

That's exactly what I'm saying! All kidding aside, I do prefer Daiwas to other brands, but many people don't care for them. I'm of the belief that if you don't try it, how do you know you're not missing something? That would explain why I have reels from BPS, Abu Garcia, Daiwa, Pflueger, and Shimano.



Here's what I've noticed from MY personal experience. I would say, overall, I get less big backlashed than with my other reels. However, I find I get a little more overrun; you know those few loose loops of line around the spool at the end of a cast. The best way to prevent that on any baitcaster though, is to stop spool with your thumb right before the lures hits the water.

I just find, that overall I like Daiwa's Magforce-V and Magforce-Z brakes the best.

And just a word on Daiwa's before you run out and buy one. As I mentioned before, many people don't like them. They aren't going to be buttery smooth like the comparable Abu or Pflueger reel. The best way I can describe it is that you feed connected to the reel. They're not rough, they don't grind, but you can sort of feel what's going on inside them; you feel connected. I'd read some reviews on www.TackleTour.com of Daiwa reels before you buy one. (click on review archive at the top of the page for a full list of reviews).

Hope this helps and doesn't cost you a whole lot of money!

BB

yes that's what i meant....the "few loose loops around the spool thing", not an actual birdsnest. frustrating none the less. i always read reviews prior to buying stuff not just from tackletour but also from direct consumers like tacklewarehouse customers for example. the curado lineup got great reviews & i love the reel so far. i've been using zero brakes while casting & can feel if a bad cast is happening. sometimes loose loops & sometimes not but can cast far. turned on a pair of brakes & no loose loop but can't cast far. are these the typical trade offs?
so you're still saying buy daiwa?

[BigBassin144]

Originally Posted by boloson

yes that's what i meant....the "few loose loops around the spool thing", not an actual birdsnest. frustrating none the less. i always read reviews prior to buying stuff not just from tackletour but also from direct consumers like tacklewarehouse customers for example. the curado lineup got great reviews & i love the reel so far. i've been using zero brakes while casting & can feel if a bad cast is happening. sometimes loose loops & sometimes not but can cast far. turned on a pair of brakes & no loose loop but can't cast far. are these the typical trade offs?

Yep, that's basically how it goes. More distance usually comes with a few more backlashes/more overrun.

Originally Posted by boloson

so you're still saying buy daiwa?

uhmmm.... oh wait, YES! Like I said before, I usually can't stick with one thing while wondering if I'm missing out on something else. Maybe I'm alone on this, but I doubt it.

I tend to fish with my spools pretty lose, with the brakes set a little higher. I keep the spool tension loose, and set the brakes to about 5. This gives me the ability to quickly, and accurately adjust to meet conditions. If it's windy, kick the brakes up a notch. It also allows me quick adjustment when changing lures. Or if I decide to pitch, I'll knock the brakes down to 2-3.

With Daiwa's Magforce brakes, I can expect a little overrun in the beginning of the cast, but it usually works itself out by the end. I know the Magforce brakes act because I'm familiar with them and known when to use my thumb and when I don't need it.

BB

[boloson]

thanks for the explanation. will probably fish the shimano this summer & at the end of the season look into a daiwa to give it a try. black friday sale perhaps?