Any aquarium experts here ?

[CMorg]

We have a 55 gallon tank full of African Cichlids. They keep getting some sort of fungus on them , and it will kill them. However if we do a 50% water change it seems to clear up and the fish get active again. But only for a few days , then the water gets cloudy again , and the fish behave strange and have a loss of appetite. I got a test strip and it says our water is safe in NO3 , Danger in NO2 , total hardness is listed as very soft , Total Alkalinity is High and the freshwater is Alkaline , not Neutral or Acidic. Anyone know whats going on here ?

[Bassboss]

It could be the place you're getting the fish. They could be transplanting the fungus from the pet store to your tank.. just a thought.

[bamabassman]

SORRY CMORG.I KNOW nuthin about this pal. GOOD LUCK THOUGH OK?

[nofearengineer]

Clint, an elevated level of Nitrite is bad, bad news. How many cichlids do you have in this tank and what size are they?

African Cichlids often need very hard, alkaline water to survive.

The only problem with that is...a high pH makes any nitrite or ammonia even more toxic. So you have to keep the tank very, VERY clean...or decomposing poop and uneaten food rots and fouls the water.

How long have you had this tank? Usually a high nitrite level means the tank hasn't cycled yet. I'm seriously hoping you didn't just go out, buy a big tank, and fill it up with fish.

For now, you should keep up the frequent water changes. This will dilute the nitrite until the denitrifying bacteria in the tank become established enough to turn the nitrite into nitrate (not as toxic).

Feel free to call me.

My credentials? Years and years keeping aquariums. But somehow you knew that, right?

[CMorg]

Ok Bryce , I will call you tomorrow. I had the tank set up and running for 2 weeks before putting any fish in it. There are 9 fish , all about 3" long. I have had the tank for a month now with the fish in it. However , I had to do a water change 3 times now. Our water is Soft even out of the tap , so i dont know what to do about that. I dont over feed them , and the tank is exceptionally clean , I use that syphon to drain the water and therefore I clean all the gravel while the water is draining ( once a week it seems ). At first the fish were fine , then it went downhill and just kept doing it..

[nofearengineer]

Clint...did you put all of the fish in at once?

You can run an aquarium for a million years with no fish in it, and it's not going to cycle, because there's no waste being introduced to start the bacteria growing and keep feeding them.

At this point, you're right in the middle of it...it usually takes a few weeks....sometimes a month, provided you've got good filtration going.

If you don't have another tank to split these guys up and lighten the bio-load, all you can do is keep changing the water until things stabilize.

Hopefully, you're de-chlorinating the water first?

When you say you're "cleaning" the tank, I hope you're not breaking it all down right? That can wipe out all of the "good" bacteria, and the whole cycling thing has to start over. Most of these bacteria will live in the gravel. I'm assuming you have an under-gravel filter?

Anyways, I was in your shoes many, many years ago. It's just a learning curve.

[kingfish]

What kind gravel are you using? I used dolomite, which is crushed limestone. This will raise the pH and make the water harder, which African Cichlids need.

What does the fungus look like? How bad is it on the fish? Would it be possible for you to get a couple pictures?

What kind of cichlids do you have? Some African Cichlids are not compatible with others.

Do you have any other tanks that are up and running? If so, what kind of filters are you running? Like Bryce said, it does take a while for the tank to cycle.

Were the fish purchased from a good breeder or per store or the petco type pet store?

I bred cichlids for about 20 years and used to have 300+ tanks and 10,000 gallons. I bred a wholesaled cichlids and even sold specific kinds back to fish farms in Florida. But it's been a long time since I've had any fish, but I'll try my best to help.

[nofearengineer]

As he lives here in Southwestern Indiana near me, I'd wager he's got a tankful of Malawi mbuna. We don't see many of the Tanganyika stuff around here.

Probably P. Zebra and M. Auratus. We get a lot of those around here at the Petsmart type places.

My guess is it isn't even fungus, just excess slime in their general unhappiness with the nitrites. I'd love to see some pictures.

[CMorg]

Since I cant see both of your responces I will just go off memory. Yes , all the fish were added at once. I didnt realize you shouldnt do that. I do not have crushed limestone , not sure where to get that , it just gravel that came from our local pet store ( actually a very nice clean pet store , but simply a pet store , not a professional master of all kind of place ) The filter is not an under the gravel kind , it mounts on the side of the tank with the plastic feeder tube hanging down. It was a good filter I believe. The fungus looks like it attacks mostly their mouth. It is sort of a white fluffy fungus on their lips , and some have it on their sides looks like the scales are shedding. It clears up overnite once we do a water change. I vacuume the gravel if you will , thats how I clean it. So , this is probably a problem too ?? Maybe shouldnt do that huh.. I am not sure of the exact breed , they were just labeled African Cichlids. I love the breed of fish , very interesting and colorful.

[bassboogieman]

NFE is correct again. I agree you have overloaded the tank. It's necessary to introduce fish in a NEW tank a few at a time. A bacteria colony needs to be established in the tank and filter system to break down the wastes produced by the fish. Too many fish and not enough bacteria to break down their wastes results in elevated nitrate/nitrite levels.

The "fungus" you speak of may be ick, which is common and is characterized by tiny white specks on the skin. There are medications to kill this parasite, raising the temperature and salt can also help. Check with your aquarium store for help on that one, as I'm not certain how African's will react to salt.

Hopefully you have a good filtration system, personally I don't like the undergravel systems, but whichever type system you have do not clean it for several weeks and do the water changes a couple times each week until your tank stabilizes. If you loose a few fish do not be in any hurry to add any more to replace them.

One thing I would recommend if you're going to be investing in expensive fish - and the African's can be - is add a UV sterilizer to your filtration system. It will kill fungus spores and other parasites as well as algae to help keep the tank clear and your fish healthy. And dolimite/limestone for gravel is a must with Africans to stabilize the pH. You can do it chemically, but the limestone is a much easier and cheaper way to stabilize the pH.

I've never kept Africans, but am considering it as my 125 gal. is empty awaiting my decision on what I'll be putting in it. A couple things I've read about the Africans is they tend to grow large (most pet stores sell juvinile fish) and are very territiorial and nine in a 55 gal. tank may cause you some issues there. Also, I've heard the breeds from the two major sources of these fish, Lake Tanginika and Lake Malawi (I know I butchered the spelling) do not mix well. Most that keep the Africans stick to one lake or the other for aquarium inhabitants, especially in smaller tanks.

[nofearengineer]

Clint, vacuuming your gravel often is great. It won't kill off any of the good bacteria. As you will discover, your mbuna LOVE to dig around in the gravel.

Let me guess...this is what you have...





Limestone is good...dolomite, as kingfish (LOL) mentioned even better. The mass-produced colored aquarium gravel looks good (to some, I guess), but doesn't help keep the pH up around 8, where it needs to be. However, it sounds like you have pretty suitable hard water where you live, so you will probably do fine with regular water changes if you're in love with the gravel.

When you clean your filter, DO NOT get rid of the filter pad. This is just a way for the companies to sell you more filter pads. That pad is where a huge number of the good bacteria live. I have filter pads that are over 10 years old and they work fine. If you have well water, you can just rinse it out completely, and re-use it. If you have municipal chlorinated water, make yourself a bucket up the day before to de-gas the chlorine, and rinse the pad with that water. 24 hours out of the pipe is good to remove all of the chlorine, especially if you "spray" it into the bucket...you don't need chemical dechlorinators to remove chlorine...just another industry cash cow.

[CMorg]

Bryce you are correct, they are mbuna. I dont really like the gravel , even though it is natural colored. I will look for the limestone and or dolomite. I noticed that it says this about my fish ... These Cichlids are usually kept in well filtered, heavily stocked mbuna-specific aquariums. Over-crowding helps spread out the aggression and no particular individual gets bullied to death. So , I dont know that 9 is too many. I seen the full sized fish in the aquarium at our local pet store and they are crowded so to say. I think 9 is ok , and I dont intend to get any more , however I am sure there will be some breeding going on. So , I may have to eliminate some. If they dont eat them first. I also have what was labeled as texas holey rock , and I made a large mountain in the middle of the tank , boy do they love those rocks. They fly threw them and come out somewhere I didnt even know connected , lol. They definately like to dig under the larger rocks , and anywhere else. Cool fish really. I really like them alot. Also my filter has a pack that stores the bacteria , its a good sized pouch that has square pieces of hard coral or something. The manual says to never get rid of that pack and it also says to replace one piece of the filtration system at a time , such as a filter , then the charcoal pack at a later date.

[nofearengineer]

Well, it sounds like you are doing pretty good, Clint.

You only goofed up on adding them all at once.

Personally, I don't think 9 mbuna is too many for a well-established 55 gallon tank, provided they stay in the 3-4 inch range. They definitely do benefit from being in large groups. I liken them to a big Italian family. They're not happy unless they're squabbling with each other.

You will have to stay religious about those water changes though. Nine 4" fish is a considerable bio-load in only 55 gallons of water. The reason you see them crowded in pet store tanks is, they usually have central filtration there. The fish are actually in a 1000 gallon tank, but trapped in the small display tank up front. The overflow tube on the tank is connected to the central filtration system, and all of the other tanks.

Mbuna sure are a lot of fun to watch. Very frustrating to decorate for though haha. Nothing EVER stays put.

My favorite HOT (hang on tank) filters have always been the "bio-wheel" Penguin filters sold out by Marineland. They have an RBC (rotating biological contactor) that looks like a paddle wheel at the filter outflow. It turns in the water flow, and constantly exposes the denitrifying bacteria that grow on it to water and air. You can change the filter pads (but like I said, you don't have to), but you never change the bio-wheel. I have never found anything that cycles a tank faster. For a 55 gallon mbuna tank, I would get their "Emperor" series. It's basically a double-wide Penguin filter with a bio wheel on either side of the filter intake.

[CMorg]

Originally Posted by nofearengineer

Well, it sounds like you are doing pretty good, Clint.

You only goofed up on adding them all at once.

Personally, I don't think 9 mbuna is too many for a well-established 55 gallon tank, provided they stay in the 3-4 inch range. They definitely do benefit from being in large groups. I liken them to a big Italian family. They're not happy unless they're squabbling with each other.

You will have to stay religious about those water changes though. Nine 4" fish is a considerable bio-load in only 55 gallons of water. The reason you see them crowded in pet store tanks is, they usually have central filtration there. The fish are actually in a 1000 gallon tank, but trapped in the small display tank up front. The overflow tube on the tank is connected to the central filtration system, and all of the other tanks.

Mbuna sure are a lot of fun to watch. Very frustrating to decorate for though haha. Nothing EVER stays put.

My favorite HOT (hang on tank) filters have always been the "bio-wheel" Penguin filters sold out by Marineland. They have an RBC (rotating biological contactor) that looks like a paddle wheel at the filter outflow. It turns in the water flow, and constantly exposes the denitrifying bacteria that grow on it to water and air. You can change the filter pads (but like I said, you don't have to), but you never change the bio-wheel. I have never found anything that cycles a tank faster. For a 55 gallon mbuna tank, I would get their "Emperor" series. It's basically a double-wide Penguin filter with a bio wheel on either side of the filter intake.

I will check that filter out , maybe get the stone at the same place. Does Harts down there sell these by any chance , or anywhere else in Etown ?

[lilmule]

Lol I like to watch my gerammi fish

[nofearengineer]

Originally Posted by CMorg

I will check that filter out , maybe get the stone at the same place. Does Harts down there sell these by any chance , or anywhere else in Etown ?

I would just buy it off of Amazon if I were you. Harps is pretty spendy on that kind of stuff.

Here's the 400:
http://www.amazon.com/Marineland-Emp.../dp/B00025YURC

The Penguin 350 is also great...and usually cheaper.
http://www.amazon.com/Penguin-Power-...pr_product_top