I am an ***.

[WTL]

Why not just acknowledge it? I am an ***. I have been guilty in the past of arguing on the internet. I wish I could have those days back.

As such, I know good arguments. Normally, the fiercest arguments are about the dumbest issues.

And so tonight, I suppose I am in an argument over whether we were having an argument.

Of course this is ridiculous. But if you wish, feel free to send me a pm blaming me for...whatever.

[nofearengineer]

I don't know, WTL. Supporting Ron Paul is probably the only numbnuts thing I've heard you do recently. Otherwise...aces.

[bamabassman]

BWAAAHAHAAHAHAHAHAA!!!! man, sometimes oyu really DO crack me up billy.

and bryce, i am voting for ron paul too man, got a problem wit dat? lmao!!!!

[bassboogieman]

Man, several guys stepping up and addmitting they are argumentative, agressive internet bullies bashing everyone and everything imaginable. I guess admitting it is the first step to becomming, what? Sociable, productive members of the various websites they haunt. Man, am I glad I am such a wonderful guy and I don't have to worry about offending anyone with my opinions. Wait, just to be safe, I know somewhere at sometime I may have been totally misunderstood - which really isn't my fault - therefore, in spirt with comming clean and starting fresh if I have ever offended anyone, at anytime on any subject - tough toenails, and as my avitar says: Bite Me.

[bcklash]

Originally Posted by WTL

Why not just acknowledge it? I am an ***. I have been guilty in the past of arguing on the internet. I wish I could have those days back.

As such, I know good arguments. Normally, the fiercest arguments are about the dumbest issues.

And so tonight, I suppose I am in an argument over whether we were having an argument.

Of course this is ridiculous. But if you wish, feel free to send me a pm blaming me for...whatever.

I can't argue with it!!!!

[MallenManson]

Originally Posted by WTL

Why not just acknowledge it? I am an ***. I have been guilty in the past of arguing on the internet. I wish I could have those days back.

As such, I know good arguments. Normally, the fiercest arguments are about the dumbest issues.

And so tonight, I suppose I am in an argument over whether we were having an argument.

Of course this is ridiculous. But if you wish, feel free to send me a pm blaming me for...whatever.

Yes you are. Then again..it takes one to know one, and all that

[bamabassman]

aaawwwwww ya'll kissing now and making up...............so sweet of oyu 2. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!



LOOK, everyone OF US HERE GETS INTO IT WITH A REALLY GOOD FRIEND EVERYONCE IN A WHILE. so ya'll did the RIGHT thing here for real. now forget about it and let's GO FISHING!!!


actually i think that is what is wrong with ALL of us mostly, we need to go fishing and get out of this winter blues thing. I DO!! now.........get on with the fishing lies!!!

[Bassboss]

You got that right Brother Love!

I personally LOVE to argue! I'll sit in law, health and geography about why something is this one way or the other. One of my buddies is the same why, when we get to arguing about something you'd best get out the way! Teachers also hate it when you prove them wrong with sited information the next day. lol

[keithdog]

Billy, I have to chime in here. There were a couple times you and I were butting heads in here. You were very frustrating to me at the time. My argument was more emotionally based, while your comments were based on legal and constitutional facts, ect. I don't even remember for sure what we were arguing about, but it involved politics I believe. Anyways, there have been other instances where you were involved in an argument with another member where I didn't get involved, but rather watched from my computer cabinet. Actually, I'm not sure any of these could be called an argument, but rather a serious discussion. Either way, you refuse to back down, and you will continue to press your point based on various facts and possibilities and your own perspective. And while this has rubbed some folks the wrong way, me included, I have to tell you that you have been quite enlightening. For God's sakes man, you have actually caused me to doubt my original opinion a couple of times! And your right about some of the arguments being about the dumbest issues, lol, but your opinions, like them or not make us think. You often offer a perspective that challenges how we feel, what we believe and what we know. Thats usually a good thing, frustrating as it can be. After knowing you these past years, I have come to a point where I look foreward to your involvment in certain discussions. I may not always agree with you, but your always going to cause me to look at any issue from another perspective, and thats often refreshing. Plus, you are who you are, and it's in your nature to challenge and debate, which is probably why your going to school to become a lawyer. I have no doubt your going to be a good one some day. Personally, I look foreward to our next argument as I always find it quite stimulating. haha

[WTL]

I’m thinking about what to say here, in regards to Mallens other thread, and Keith’s post and everybody else and every argument/exchange we have ever had on this forum. There are a few things I want to be sure and say, and I've taken a couple days to think about them.

First things first is, Mallen, I really didn’t want to fight with you. I enjoy your posts. You mentioned we had had 2 previous arguments in the past, and to be truthful, I did not remember that. I went back and looked and remember some of it after glancing at the PMs, but I have always thought of you as that guy from Michigan who fishes from a yak and once posted some great pictures. I don’t hold grudges, and hope that you wont hold them towards me, especially considering I personally respect you very much.

I can’t possibly pretend to not be an *******. I wont. There are posts on this board made by me that I would delete in a second if I could. I am embarrassed by them. Not all of them came when I was wrong on a factual matter, many came when (I think) I was right on the facts but wrong about how I went about proclaiming that. Two exchanges that stand out are the football playoff war with John Wood, and the TigerRodz fiasco with Donald Breland, Tim, and C-Rig. With Mr. Wood, I resorted to ad hominem attacks partly because I didn’t realize that he had changed names, and when he engaged me I thought he was a sort of troll. Some of the things I said I should never have said and I have regretted it for years now. Its true that he was testing me, but that’s even more the reason not to be an *******. With regards to C-Rig, Tim, Breland and the like – I still think I was right - or at minimum being consistent - over the substantive basis for the argument, but I went about it like an overzealous prosecutor, taking joy in tearing into people and that was wrong. I don’t own the board, and no longer see it as my place to dominate the joint, spitting out proclamations on what should and should not be the status quo and then enforcing it. No disrespect to Kevin, but I don’t value the forum as much as I used to, although I value some of the people on it more.

For the past few days, one of my professors has been making the point that many people have lost the ability to disagree. Every time he says it I feel like I am the one he is talking about, but I know it is a general lament. But if we know that is true in general, and if I know that has been true of me in the past, I can at least try to correct my part in it.

I have tried, with mixed results over the past year or 2, to not resort so much to ad hominem attacks or insults. I fail all the time. But I am trying. I do not believe in the post from yesterday that I used a personal insult. The one area where Mallen thought I was, I can see what he was thinking, but I was solely trying to illustrate a principle. I wouldn’t insult Triton owners as a class because it would make me a hypocrite, I would gladly own a Triton and be proud of it.

I also think there is a little bit of truth in what Keith said. It will be my job to convince people, so I am going to have to continue to hone my skills in that matter. Just as a FYI, when I am involved in a debate on here, I am trying to do a few things (besides pad my ego, which to some degree I think its hard not to try to do, people like to be right).

I am of course trying to be right on whatever I am discussing. That doesn’t always happen, but people hate lawyers who try to argue one way and turn around the next day and argue the exact opposite. I can do that if a client really required it, but I don’t have to on here so I try to be right.

But another thing I try to do, that a lot of people on the internet don’t really try to do, is I try to persuade the other person., I have been told before that that is an idiotic thing to attempt, but I think I have been successful some of the time to a limited extent. As part of that, when I do try to persuade someone else, I am forced to defeat their arguments, and that means my posts end up being very long, detailed, overbearing and directed on what I perceive to be the analytical failings of the other person. And from that, and also my reputation which is partly deserved, it is very hard for me not to find myself in a heated exchange. I really can’t blame people from at first blush thinking they should slug back, especially after I address a manifesto specifically to them - even if that manifesto is not meant as a personal slight.

Another thing at play, that everyone should keep in mind no matter who they are arguing on the internet, is that the internet changes how things sound. In person, people at my school find me to be pretty benign. I can change the tone of my voice so that even though the words are biting, its known that I am not trying to be malicious. You can’t really do that on the internet, and given that 9/10 arguments are just pissing matches, it should really be no surprise that people get very animated as a rule.

In conclusion, there would be no point to these forums if not for disagreement. I sometimes offer up my views not because I am totally convinced that they are correct, but that there is at least enough truth in them that they should be voiced. We all are better off that way. That poor guy got a hell of a discussion the other day regarding entry level baitcasters, and how much he should spend.

[Tavery5]

I would rather seen some passionate, intelligent debate rather than fall victim of the Abilene Paradox.

[MallenManson]

Nicely said, WTL. The Tigerodz thread was one of our arguments. I really don't remember the other, although I'm pretty sure there was 1 more.

You really hit the nail on the head, in regards to internet arguments. We can't see a person's expressions, or gestures or mannerisms. We can only go by the words they type.
Makes it tough to know where someone is actually coming from. Could be why smilies were invented...

Anyways, I'm fine with it all, and hopefully one of these days we'll be yakkin some Southern water together.
If I remember correctly, that's how you fished one of the get togethers

[WTL]

Sure Mallen, look forward to it sometime.

[kennethdaysale]

Speaking of the spoken word vs typed. Try this famous Zig Ziglar exersize. Say this sentence out loud 6 times...each time put strong emphasis on a different word starting with I....
I NEVER SAID SHE STOLE MONEY.

[MallenManson]

Originally Posted by kennethdaysale

Speaking of the spoken word vs typed. Try this famous Zig Ziglar exersize. Say this sentence out loud 6 times...each time put strong emphasis on a different word starting with I....
I NEVER SAID SHE STOLE MONEY.

Emphasis on "money" works best for me

[WatterBoy]

Originally Posted by WTL

. . .

In conclusion, there would be no point to these forums if not for disagreement. I sometimes offer up my views not because I am totally convinced that they are correct, but that there is at least enough truth in them that they should be voiced. We all are better off that way. That poor guy got a hell of a discussion the other day regarding entry level baitcasters, and how much he should spend.

Hey, methinks that's me!

I got plenty of what I needed from that thread. I was just hoping to quell what seemed like it had become the proverbial "pissing match," which I think happened. I'm glad to see this thread and the posts in it. Nicely done!

Dean

[islandbass]

Did I miss something?

Free speech is usually a good thing, but opinions are like bad breath. Every one has both.

[carolina-rig-01]

I know I am way late on getting into this discussion, but I was in Shreveport at the Classic so hopefully Professor Billy will at least give me half credit for making up my work LOL. I always thought that the TigeRodz post was dead and gone and I was going to leave it that way. But I also always thought that if the subject ever came back up I would like to get a few things off my chest. I'm not too proud of the way I handled that situation either. I let my emotions get the best of me and say some things based on what I fealt rather than looking at the big picture. I still don't believe that myself and the others who shared my point of view on the subject were wrong, but WTL does and that's ok with me too. What bothers me more than anything is that I accused Kevin of something pubicly rather than via PM. If I had it all to do over again I would have said what I had to say and then dropped it, rather than try to force other people into seeing things my way. I would like to think that Kevin, Billy, and myself have all moved past that argument and are friends just as we were before, but I can only say that is how I feel and the rest is up to them.

My wife has had a problem with standing up for herself ever since we met. That has always been the one thing about her that drove me nuts. She would much rather keep her mouth shut and let people walk all over her than to stand up for herself and possibly be proven wrong about something. I have preached to her for 11 years now that nobody will respect her if she doesn't respect herself enough to stand up for herself, and if she is wrong that is ok. I keep telling her that as long as you stand up for what you believe in you are right no matter how wrong your argument may be, because there is nothing right about going with the flow because you are scared of ruffling a few feathers.

I realize that most of that probably doesn't apply to this thread, but like I said I always wanted to get some stuff off my chest if the subject of the TigeRodz conflict ever came up again.

[joedog]

Hey, hats off to everyone!
Giving opinions on the internet is easy!
Apologizing or admitting to regrets and apologizing for past actions.....not easily done anywhere!

I'm proud to be friends with all of you! Now I'm even prouder!
Hey, it's the internet....assumptions are easy too!
Everyone have a great day!